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Old 04-06-2010, 07:17 PM   #61
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Zero point energy is not funny. It's science. What's funny is that people dig for oil instead. Energy is all around us. You can obtain it from anywhere. What's funny is that the world burns oil even though we have knowledge to progress. Like I said, I know it will never happen but more people need to be aware that it's out there
Solar is being rigorously developed, and as far as I'm concerned, Wind is uninteresting.

I don't know my way around the whole of the new energy techs, but I'm definitely excited about solar.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:19 PM   #62
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Everything that happened there was because they mistook cameras and tripods for AK's and RPG's. The rest is exactly how armed targets are engaged, that includes the van, which they assumed got there to extract personnel and remove weapons from the scene.

Was their initial assessment wrong? Yep. Could it be avoided? Maybe. Was it the wrong thing to do? You tell me. You're in a helicopter and you see suspicious dudes with what looks like RPG's right by the combat zone, and you're told they just shot up a convoy nearby, what do you do? And no, you don't have time to double and triple check the video feed, take a gander at them or to ask them nicely if they;re terrorists. Do you hesitate and possibly get blown the fuck up or do you shoot them?

War blows, but what are you gonna do? olololol enjoy your Americunt guilt bro.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:21 PM   #63
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Isn't one of the biggest problems that these cock suckers have been firing on shit on the off chance it is something bad? Well explained in the "they're coming right for us" episode of South Park back in the day i think.

It's all just excuses ffs. Of course you are going to be all sorts of paranoid in that situation, but that doesn't mean you need to blast folks to kingdom come because they MIGHT be carrying something dodgy. Imagine if that shit happened in their OWN country with cops or some shit. I know to a degree it does, but i mean all the time. Like, cops shooting civilians because they MIGHT be carrying a weapon, when it was in fact a packet of tampons.
Seriously, your country would lose it's shit over something like that. Someone gets tased without a decent reason, and people freak out. Still keeps happening i know, but people kick up a pretty big stink.
But in a different country - fuck 'em. Wrong place wrong time = bummer is all that is being put forth it seems. A bunch of innocents get wiped out, but "it's war man, collateral damage"....but 1 SINGLE U.S PERSON in Iraq is killed, and it makes the news in the west.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:24 PM   #64
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You guys seem to think it was those soldiers' idea to invade Iraq. Well, let me tell you something... You're fucking retarded.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:28 PM   #65
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that´s half true I´d say
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:40 PM   #66
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You guys seem to think it was those soldiers' idea to invade Iraq. Well, let me tell you something... You're fucking retarded.
You really think this is a pertinent angle people are trying to push?
Weird dude, weird. It is hardly the point.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:48 PM   #67
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depends on what the question here really is.

who was right - the soldiers or the journalists?

and maybe what he´s trying to say is that those soldiers are fucking scared and don´t want to die or something. don´t know. please elaborate szadou.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:25 PM   #68
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Like some one was saying earlier.............

































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Old 04-06-2010, 08:29 PM   #69
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as far as I know most everyone here has no idea what it's like to be a soldier in Iraq, including myself. Just sayin.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:31 PM   #70
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haha, I love dudes who come late and say random shit that has not much to do with the topic but then smn discussions suck. oh well.

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Old 04-06-2010, 08:38 PM   #71
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haha, i love when dudes point out that other dudes come late into discussions
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:55 PM   #72
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I think discussions are the only time most of you cum late. zing.


....i know that was lame
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:25 PM   #73
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what do you mean by zero point energy? vacuum energy?

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Old 04-06-2010, 09:41 PM   #74
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This is a very complex situation. I want to make very clear before I proceed, that I do not in any way want to justify the actions of the soldiers, nor take focus off the horrid outcome of the Iraqi conflict.

I think the situation in Iraq would be more suitable to be labeled a conflict, since there are several factions in Iraq who target each other, and America isn't really in a war, because in a war, 2 sides battle one another. But yes, Iraq is occupied by USA, and America was from start an aggressive, occupying force.

I am not sure what exactly we are discussing here, because this topic tends to go back and forth about imperialism, and the event of 2007. Lets stick to Iraq, the soldiers and the action that led to this discussion.

This is obviously nothing new. Innocents were slaughtered in Vietnam in huge numbers, and I've seen some frightening photos of insane sights with bodies pilled, and how U.S soldiers desecrated bodies of the dead. I think Quartertroll said it best, when he mentioned that "I guess war does that to people".

Many of these soldiers are also stupid, fucked up, wannabe masculine guys. That stupidity is what leads to horrors like this. Most of them don't understand what war is before they join, and given their stupidity, can't handle such hectic and fast-paced situations.

Add the paranoia to it, and constant fear for an ambush, and the stupid 19-20 year old macho mentality of showing off ones killer self, and shit like this happens. Some of these men also crave a kill, as in sports. It happens more often than one think. I guess you've all seen the scene in Full Metal Jacket, with the redneck slaughtering civilians for no reason from the helicopter; shit like that happened everyday in Vietnam.
Add that mentality to the 19-25 year olds in Iraq, and you got yourself a scenario.

This is beyond words... But, wars repeat patterns over and over. Iraq is the new Vietnam, and massacres are currently taking place. It took a long time before the atrocities of Vietnam got uncovered. The military will always cover their tracks, no matter what. To fight the corrupt bureaucracy is like hitting a brick wall with no helmet. Media is biased, and since everything is put under the rug at all time, nobody will risk digging it up; because, there is no real interest in it. And independent Media, has a harder time to cover stories like these, because of expanses, among many things. Independent media is simply poor, and can't withstand situations like Iraq.

Therefore corporate owned media can run their story in whichever way they like. So, one solution would be private investment in good, reliable Media people who are willing to dig, and work hard to uncover truths. We who are aware need to pay out of our own pockets, to start with.

The Media situation is a whole different issue, in my opinion. I am saying that in order for us to come to a constructive conclusion, we need to choose a topic and focus on it. We can discuss imperialism, corporate Media, the Iraqi conflict, and psychology of a section-8 soldier. I'm not denying that they are all tied together, but for an order, i believe we need to conclude this horrible action.

I notice that many of these dumb soldiers turn into mindless robots, with an inability to use their brain. Therefore, orders from a higher rank is sufficient for a proper action. In this video, we witness pure incompetence, and horrid consequences of the things i mentioned above. After this leaks, the military will have to start covering this up. Somebody may be a scapegoat, but the true incompetent, high-up leaders will of course walk away free.
Now they've justified it by military law, and that's a very convenient way of responding, and easy, because federal law simply don't apply.

They've won. So, now we would need to start demonstrations on the streets in our home countries. I mean seriously, if nobody is going to do shit, if we don't start acknowledging this in public, this will just go on. Stir shit up, is what we would need to be doing.

Last edited by Original; 04-06-2010 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:13 PM   #75
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Good post.

Was anybody in a state of total disbelief in 2003 when this war started? I was only 14 but I kept up on the issues a bit, and I couldn't understand the rationale behind the invasion.


And I still don't.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:42 PM   #76
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Well, the main "Reason" was to collapse Saddam, because he was en evil dictator.

Edit: Which American government helped to install, by the way. Only that Saddam proceeded with his own interest instead of Americas, so therefore they had to liquidate him. Same happened in the Desert Storm 1; Saddam wanted Kuwait, but USA had greater business interests there, so they chose to turn on Saddam. Funny, huh, as America made it possible for Saddam to attack Kuwait in the first place, as they sponsored him.

Saddam was also Americas puppet during the Iran/Iraq war, as America wanted both countries to obliterate themselves, so they could claim the land afterwards. So, that "Reason" didn't really fool those who knew their history.
[/Edit]

However, the plan was to take the country in like 1 month, and anybody using their brain understands that 1 month means aggressive, randomly planned attacks. I am a bit too tired to get into military details and strategy, etc.
But, I will state this: In order to proceed to win and gain a mutual trust, you'll need the Populus confidence. America slaughtered the civilians, instead.

The first thought of liberation gets dull when somebody states to overthrow in a short period of time. Carefully planned, and co-ordinated missions were non-existent. Then you'll have to consider the bureaucracy of the military, and that's another complex variable. Generals wanting to please government, the majors to please generals, etc. You got all these institutions, plus the greedy men in the background, all wanting their slice. It's fucked up, but still complex and needs to be understood before it ca be resolved.

Note: I have not served, nor do i serve in the military. I just like to read a lot about things like these, and am simply trying to share my personal opinion, while giving some analytical insight into the invasion.

I am pretty beat right now, though. Discussion in public is always the first step towards acknowledgment. Some people won't budge for many several reasons, but just keep pounding.

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Old 04-06-2010, 11:36 PM   #77
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Heh, this video is on Yahoo! now, on their front page
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:38 PM   #78
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I love dudes who come
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:18 AM   #79
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I love dudes... I mean... Dudes are hot... fuck!
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:50 AM   #80
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yea these guys are pretty trigger happy. and also infuriated by some terrorists shooting at their buddies hours before they got there. they closed in on the kill zone expecting hostiles. their mission was to target them and engage. there was an ambush at the reporters location a bit before they got there. so the reporter took a big chance going into the kill zone to "take photographs" or whatever the fuck. he knew the consequences of being shot... or maybe not.... its just too bad he had that camera in the wrong place at the wrong time. this shit happens. war is everything but fair. theres always gonna be civilian casualties, theres always gonna be sociopathic soldiers, and (thanks the net) theres always going to be pussies crying about it online. COOL!!!


just thought i would add... whats most difficult about the current war: the enemy disguise themselves as civilians. first war we've fought where the enemy cant be identified by uniform. all our troops are paranoid. getting constantly blown the fuck up by IED's isnt helping. soldiers and marines are probably fucking pissed. and many of them are getting personally enraged and just want to kill and avenge fallen friends and colleagues. shit fucking happens. they arent thinking about whats right and wrong. thinking about making it home alive. which sometimes leads to the 'shooting without asking' kind of mentality. CRY MORE!!!!
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:00 AM   #81
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yea these guys are pretty trigger happy. and also infuriated by some terrorists shooting at their buddies hours before they got there. they closed in on the kill zone expecting hostiles. their mission was to target them and engage. there was an ambush at the reporters location a bit before they got there. so the reporter took a big chance going into the kill zone to "take photographs" or whatever the fuck. he knew the consequences of being shot... or maybe not.... its just too bad he had that camera in the wrong place at the wrong time. this shit happens. war is everything but fair. theres always gonna be civilian casualties, theres always gonna be sociopathic soldiers, and (thanks the net) theres always going to be pussies crying about it online. COOL!!!


just thought i would add... whats most difficult about the current war: the enemy disguise themselves as civilians. first war we've fought where the enemy cant be identified by uniform. all our troops are paranoid. getting constantly blown the fuck up by IED's isnt helping. soldiers and marines are probably fucking pissed. and many of them are getting personally enraged and just want to kill and avenge fallen friends and colleagues. shit fucking happens. they arent thinking about whats right and wrong. thinking about making it home alive. which sometimes leads to the 'shooting without asking' kind of mentality. CRY MORE!!!!
The "pussies" are cretins like yourself who absolve themselves of moral concern in the convoluted way you just demonstrated. Obviously this shit happens. The point of being angry is that we intend to place the moral blame on the perpetrator, not the victim. If you're not a pussy you might actually be motivated to DO something about it. It may not work, your voice may not be heard, but it's certain that nothing will happen if you sit on your ass and say "well they deserved it anyway."

Also, this is hardly the first war the U.S. has fought where the enemy is indistinguishable from civilians. (And here's a though too, Mr. Internet Toughie, maaaaaybe the reason the line between civilian and combatant is so thin is because these poor angry troops ARE KILLING CIVILIANS WITH IMPUNITY, THUS MOTIVATING THEIR GRIEVING FRIENDS AND RELATIVES TO JOIN THE RESISTANCE.)

Note: This doesn't mean I wholesale support the Iraqi insurgency which is largely motivated by disgusting Islamic fundamentalism.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:19 AM   #82
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Well, the main "Reason" was to collapse Saddam, because he was en evil dictator.
No, this was the spin they put on it.
It was always about oil. You're kidding yourself if you think it was anything more.

Not to mention...well, i know it is controversial, but he was only an "evil dictator" based on shit we're fed about him via western mainstream media.
I mean, i saw 2 documentaries (not mainstream ones) in a period not too long before America's invasion, and found them very interesting due to seeing things in a different light. They showed interviews with Iraqi people - and for the most part, they were not bothered by having him as a leader. In fact, most of the people said they were happy with their lives, and felt good about their leader as he was a strong, powerful person.

I mean, there is no doubt he was doing and did do some FUCKED up shit, but the bottom line is - it was his country.
I think many other countries disagreed with the way George Bush was running "his own" right? I mean, America is a consumerist, corporate controlled, energy consuming, deeply flawed nation. Imagine if other world forces joined together and said "America is trying to control the world, they provide less than 5% of the world's population yet use more energy annually than any other country in vast proportions, provide the second highest amount of CO2 emissions annually, create fast food companies that continue to spread across the globe that have had a huge impact on obesity and bad health, encourages their residents to obsess over pointless trivialities of it's celebrities along with many other horrid things - lets go there and overthrow their government, and if we kill a few hundred thousand civilians in the process or even over 1,000,000 that's just too bad cos we are acting for the greater good"....

...If this happened, you living over there would freak the fuck out, and rightly so. And i would feel bad - terrible in fact, cos despite having bad feelings towards many of your country folk and much of the "American attitude" - i KNOW there are fuckloads of awesome people there. Some amazing things have come from your country, in fact, some of the most amazing shit ever. And even though i don't live there, i would be against the world invading your country and taking it over. YES i would like to see certain parts of your establishment forced to change the way they act. Yes i would like to see people held accountable for the wrongs that are still being cultivated on a daily basis.
Yes i would like to see the rabid mass media dog put on a leash. Yes i would like to see MANY things about the way you live (and many other places in the world, but that isn't the point right now) change.
But only so it would set a GOOD example for the world. Like, an admission of how fucked we've become, and the extent we must go to to fix it, or try to fix it.
I actually think it'd be a pretty cool "project", rebuilding things.

Bottom line is, America doesn't own the world. Noone does. We're all here together, and we're doing a pretty shitty job of existing cohesively right about now.
People can say "people have never got along man, look at the *insert olden time group of people who fought someone else here* back in the *insert relevant time period*" etc etc, but the bottom line is things are not like they used to be. The world is thinking more similarily now, people from all over the world now live togethor, we use the same types of utensils day to day, live similar lives, etc to so many others on the planet. And if we don't, we can find about the way they live so easily, etc.
We are at a point where we should know better. We are aware of our own morals, and yet we allow them to be smothered with greed and apathy whenever it seems like a better solution.

I just think we can do it better. We mightn't be able to fix every problem, but i think we can make things a LOT better. Seriously. It just seems like a huge task. But, there's plenty of us, and some arguably smart motherfuckers amongst us. And to let these atrocities continue without proper acknowledgement and attempts to counteract imo is plain wrong.


Just sayin'... haha
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:58 AM   #83
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"how do you shoot women and children?"

"easy you just lead them a little less!"

America's Foreign policies suck, we always have to show people we are still in charge by invading some poor defenseless country and bombing and shooting the shit out of it. i rather have a little less money then understand that MY country is responsible for a million innocent lives.
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:40 AM   #84
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No, this was the spin they put on it.
It was always about oil. You're kidding yourself if you think it was anything more.

Not to mention...well, i know it is controversial, but he was only an "evil dictator" based on shit we're fed about him via western mainstream media.
I mean, i saw 2 documentaries (not mainstream ones) in a period not too long before America's invasion, and found them very interesting due to seeing things in a different light. They showed interviews with Iraqi people - and for the most part, they were not bothered by having him as a leader. In fact, most of the people said they were happy with their lives, and felt good about their leader as he was a strong, powerful person.

I mean, there is no doubt he was doing and did do some FUCKED up shit, but the bottom line is - it was his country.
I think many other countries disagreed with the way George Bush was running "his own" right? I mean, America is a consumerist, corporate controlled, energy consuming, deeply flawed nation. Imagine if other world forces joined together and said "America is trying to control the world, they provide less than 5% of the world's population yet use more energy annually than any other country in vast proportions, provide the second highest amount of CO2 emissions annually, create fast food companies that continue to spread across the globe that have had a huge impact on obesity and bad health, encourages their residents to obsess over pointless trivialities of it's celebrities along with many other horrid things - lets go there and overthrow their government, and if we kill a few hundred thousand civilians in the process or even over 1,000,000 that's just too bad cos we are acting for the greater good"....

...If this happened, you living over there would freak the fuck out, and rightly so. And i would feel bad - terrible in fact, cos despite having bad feelings towards many of your country folk and much of the "American attitude" - i KNOW there are fuckloads of awesome people there. Some amazing things have come from your country, in fact, some of the most amazing shit ever. And even though i don't live there, i would be against the world invading your country and taking it over. YES i would like to see certain parts of your establishment forced to change the way they act. Yes i would like to see people held accountable for the wrongs that are still being cultivated on a daily basis.
Yes i would like to see the rabid mass media dog put on a leash. Yes i would like to see MANY things about the way you live (and many other places in the world, but that isn't the point right now) change.
But only so it would set a GOOD example for the world. Like, an admission of how fucked we've become, and the extent we must go to to fix it, or try to fix it.
I actually think it'd be a pretty cool "project", rebuilding things.

Bottom line is, America doesn't own the world. Noone does. We're all here together, and we're doing a pretty shitty job of existing cohesively right about now.
People can say "people have never got along man, look at the *insert olden time group of people who fought someone else here* back in the *insert relevant time period*" etc etc, but the bottom line is things are not like they used to be. The world is thinking more similarily now, people from all over the world now live togethor, we use the same types of utensils day to day, live similar lives, etc to so many others on the planet. And if we don't, we can find about the way they live so easily, etc.
We are at a point where we should know better. We are aware of our own morals, and yet we allow them to be smothered with greed and apathy whenever it seems like a better solution.

I just think we can do it better. We mightn't be able to fix every problem, but i think we can make things a LOT better. Seriously. It just seems like a huge task. But, there's plenty of us, and some arguably smart motherfuckers amongst us. And to let these atrocities continue without proper acknowledgement and attempts to counteract imo is plain wrong.


Just sayin'... haha
what are the names of those documentaries? im a bit curious
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:57 AM   #85
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Dunno the names, but i will try and track them down.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:32 AM   #86
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depends on what the question here really is.

who was right - the soldiers or the journalists?

and maybe what he´s trying to say is that those soldiers are fucking scared and don´t want to die or something. don´t know. please elaborate szadou.
Those heli dudes do seem pretty shit scared, unless the dude that pretty much screams "Come on, fire!" is some sort of a sociopath and they somehow staged the whole conversation in the middle of deciding to shoot civilians.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:16 AM   #87
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No, this was the spin they put on it.
It was always about oil. You're kidding yourself if you think it was anything more.
i believe that's exactly the reason why he put "Reason" in those quotation marks. just sayin' ;)

also:

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togethor
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:25 AM   #88
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So wait Luke Jaeger was flying the Apache?
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:43 AM   #89
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Yeah, i misspelt together for like a decade, then recently started to get a handle on it, but if often comes back to haunt me - especially when making posts that are a little bulkier than others.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:54 AM   #90
ShadowHunter
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: croatia
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i didn't really mean it as a correction or nitpicking, but more of how an awesome misspelling it actually is. i mean, togeTHOR.. together with THOR! FUCKING THOR! :P
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