SMNnews Forums

Go Back   SMNnews Forums > General Forums > Death Metal Discussion

Death Metal Discussion churlish elitist commentary. our most popular forum yet. metal not necessarily discussed.







Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-09-2008, 11:14 AM   #31
Wakeness
Origin Fan
 
Wakeness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,945
Rep Power: 22 Wakeness slam gang member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaughteredOnslaught View Post
It's amazing how fast people get all defensive - that kind of stuff never happens here! Or the best coming from the cognitive dissonance suffering, kool-aid drinking, bobble-heads is sporting the attitude that anything coming from independent news sources are just conspiracy theory believing nutcases - even when there are a plethora of links for people to check this shit out for themselves!
Oh, but I forgot: Don't bother me with the facts, my mind's already made up!
Unfortunately, most of the masses of sheeple are so dumbed down and expect everything to be instantaneous - including "news" - so they can't be bothered to do the research for themselves.
As far as people bagging on Alex Jones goes... All people have to do is check the links for sources and stop giving a shit about Edwards affair that corp. mass media is lapping up and take a look around - it doesn't take a PhD to see that corp. mass media (regardless if it's coming from pultzer prize winners) is way worse than some of the independent news sources people are so critical of...

Indeed, people are either too lazy to do any sort of research, or too scared to uncover the truth.
Wakeness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 11:25 AM   #32
SiegeEngine
TAFKA tck!
 
SiegeEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NOVA
Posts: 14,521
Rep Power: 30 SiegeEngine beat up jewski
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeness View Post
Yes. The only credible sources for true information are Fox, CNN and CBC, because they would never lie to you, and they are completely independantly owned. (Not to mention unbiased, right?)
I agree that no news source is completely free of bias, but the fact of the matter is, all these "independant" sources conspiracy theorists and paranoids like to cite are either a) predisposed to believe in conspiracy, therefore causing them to see events how they want to and proving to be just as much a bias or b) they simply do not have the resources to cover these stories on a first person basis and must rely on other accounts which, in turn, destroys already questionable credibility.

What it comes down to for me is Occam's Razor, the simplest solution is most often to correct one (this can be extrapolated to mean the simplest explination, also). For all these conspiracy theories to be the true, the sheer scale of participation demands that there be a primary source leak. The Moon Landing, 9/11, the U.S.S. Cole, etc. All these things have had evidence reviewed by too many people for someone using primary sources, or someone who was directly involved to not leak or admit that something wasn't right with the public's perception of the event.

Also, you have to think of what there would be to gain for those in power. Wealth. Ok, sure. But what good is wealth with a shattered poplace? There is none. There is little incentive to antagonize war in the 21st century due to the enormous finincial and human cost that could occur. Humans are selfish creatures and would almost never do something to harm themselves for their position in life.
SiegeEngine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:05 PM   #33
Tzimisce
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: running along a möbius strip
Posts: 7,424
Rep Power: 0 Tzimisce slam gang member
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeness View Post
Yes. The only credible sources for true information are Fox, CNN and CBC, because they would never lie to you, and they are completely independantly owned. (Not to mention unbiased, right?)
Christ, shut the fuck up already. Nobody's impressed by your passive-aggressive bullshit.
Crawl back over to the Loose Change forum, or wherever the fuck you were before you came back here, and leave those of us with more than two functioning braincells the fuck alone.
Tzimisce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:17 PM   #34
Tzimisce
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: running along a möbius strip
Posts: 7,424
Rep Power: 0 Tzimisce slam gang member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaughteredOnslaught View Post
It's amazing how fast people get all defensive - that kind of stuff never happens here! Or the best coming from the cognitive dissonance suffering, kool-aid drinking, bobble-heads is sporting the attitude that anything coming from independent news sources are just conspiracy theory believing nutcases - even when there are a plethora of links for people to check this shit out for themselves!
Oh, but I forgot: Don't bother me with the facts, my mind's already made up!
Unfortunately, most of the masses of sheeple are so dumbed down and expect everything to be instantaneous - including "news" - so they can't be bothered to do the research for themselves.
As far as people bagging on Alex Jones goes... All people have to do is check the links for sources and stop giving a shit about Edwards affair that corp. mass media is lapping up and take a look around - it doesn't take a PhD to see that corp. mass media (regardless if it's coming from pultzer prize winners) is way worse than some of the independent news sources people are so critical of...
Tzimisce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:53 PM   #35
LesserAnimal
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,086
Rep Power: 17 LesserAnimal karmablade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeness View Post
Yes. The only credible sources for true information are Fox, CNN and CBC, because they would never lie to you, and they are completely independantly owned. (Not to mention unbiased, right?)
NO, that's NOT what anyone said.

There are several credible news organizations and writers. Alex Jones and infowars is NOT one of them.

Check out:

www.rawstory.com

www.Atimes.com

A small, specialty site: www.antiwar.com

I'm sure there are many others as well.

Alex Jones is a sensationalist demagogue who peddles to the truly paranoid and fantastic of the conspiracy crowd. He makes groups and individuals who are actually trying to uncover the truth look silly via unwilling association.

Last edited by LesserAnimal; 08-09-2008 at 02:05 PM..
LesserAnimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:57 PM   #36
A Social Grace
Greenlight
 
A Social Grace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 551
Rep Power: 14 A Social Grace slam gang member
Seconded on the Asia Times. Great news website. Check out http://www.counterpunch.org and http://www.commondreams.org for some good opinion based writing too. People should seriously consider getting a magazine subscription or two, too. Harper's is a great start.
A Social Grace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 01:05 PM   #37
LesserAnimal
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,086
Rep Power: 17 LesserAnimal karmablade
Quote:
Originally Posted by tck! View Post
What it comes down to for me is Occam's Razor, the simplest solution is most often to correct one (this can be extrapolated to mean the simplest explination, also). For all these conspiracy theories to be the true, the sheer scale of participation demands that there be a primary source leak. The Moon Landing, 9/11, the U.S.S. Cole, etc. All these things have had evidence reviewed by too many people for someone using primary sources, or someone who was directly involved to not leak or admit that something wasn't right with the public's perception of the event.
How do you react when conspiracy is the simplest solution? This has always seemed like a misuse of the razor to me. (I personally do not believe in far fetched conspiracies involving jews or the illuminati sacrificing human lives in "Bohemian grove" etc) Again, I cite the short article on conspiracy theory written by Rothbard, which I linked to yesterday in this thread.

Excerpt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray Rothbard
There are, of course, good conspiracy analysts and bad conspiracy analysts, just as there are good and bad historians or practitioners of any discipline. The bad conspiracy analyst tends to make two kinds of mistakes, which indeed leave him open to the Establishment charge of "paranoia." First, he stops with the cui bono; if measure A benefits X and Y, he simply concludes that therefore X and Y were responsible. He fails to realize that this is just a hypothesis, and must be verified by finding out whether or not X and Y really did so. (Perhaps the wackiest example of this was the British journalist Douglas Reed who, seeing that the result of Hitler's policies was the destruction of Germany, concluded, without further evidence, that therefore Hitler was a conscious agent of external forces who deliberately set out to ruin Germany.) Secondly, the bad conspiracy analyst seems to have a compulsion to wrap up all the conspiracies, all the bad guy power blocs, into one giant conspiracy. Instead of seeing that there are several power blocs trying to gain control of government, sometimes in conflict and sometimes in alliance, he has to assume – again without evidence – that a small group of men controls them all, and only seems to send them into conflict.
Although I am agnostic concerning 9/11, you're getting ahead of yourself here. Depending on the method you're theorizing was used in a hypothetical conspiracy, the amount of people who would have to be completely "in on it" is always exaggerated by "debunkers". Further, there is no shocking lack of whistleblowers. Two people legitimately have: Sibel Edmonds, an FBI translator who is now gagged on the information. Most of her life was classified in one big swoop. According to the gag, she can't tell people what languages she speaks or where she was born etc.), and Indira Singh, who after delivering a speech on very suspicious activity by Ptech, stated that there is a lot to be said about "the drugs around 9/11" and that she was told if she spoke of them "that would be the end of her". Indira worked for JP Morgan Chase at the time.

After having realized that 95% of the material out there trying to establish a conspiracy was bogus and written by people who just weren't qualified to make the claims, I developed a pretty solid picture of how poorly self-regulated the conspiracy crowd was. Loose change = garbage, Zeitgeist = almost all garbage, James Fetzer, Webster Tarpley etc. ... Garbage.

I'm feeling redundant, but if you want the only relevant book that's suspicious of 9/11, read Peter Dale Scott's "The Road to 9/11". Scott is also agnostic concerning the event. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YFBzjlFuFQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by tck! View Post
Also, you have to think of what there would be to gain for those in power. Wealth. Ok, sure. But what good is wealth with a shattered poplace? There is none. There is little incentive to antagonize war in the 21st century due to the enormous finincial and human cost that could occur. Humans are selfish creatures and would almost never do something to harm themselves for their position in life.
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Wars and interventions have been happening on behalf of big business for quite a while, and quite often. While writing this paragraph had you forgotten that the United States is at war with Iraq and Afghanistan? And that, although it appears they've lost, Cheney and Bush were pushing as hard as they possibly could for war with Iran just recently?

Last edited by LesserAnimal; 08-09-2008 at 01:18 PM..
LesserAnimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 02:46 PM   #38
SiegeEngine
TAFKA tck!
 
SiegeEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NOVA
Posts: 14,521
Rep Power: 30 SiegeEngine beat up jewski
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesserAnimal View Post
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Wars and interventions have been happening on behalf of big business for quite a while, and quite often. While writing this paragraph had you forgotten that the United States is at war with Iraq and Afghanistan? And that, although it appears they've lost, Cheney and Bush were pushing as hard as they possibly could for war with Iran just recently?
I'm well aware of our current war, and I do not support it.

Big business benefits from war when there is the ability to mobilize large portions of the population into industrial sectors. In today's economic climate this is impractical and essentially impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LesserAnimal
How do you react when conspiracy is the simplest solution? This has always seemed like a misuse of the razor to me. (I personally do not believe in far fetched conspiracies involving jews or the illuminati sacrificing human lives in "Bohemian grove" etc) Again, I cite the short article on conspiracy theory written by Rothbard, which I linked to yesterday in this thread.
When is conspiracy the simplest solution?

and also, about those two with the gag orders, what is to really stop them from talking? If they know that something like 9/11 or whatever was a "false flag" operation don't they have a moral imperative (this is assuming that they don't put their life above the well being of our democracy) to expose it?
SiegeEngine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 03:10 PM   #39
quartertone
Academmik musition
 
quartertone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 6,970
Rep Power: 19 quartertone beat up john dwyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tck! View Post
and also, about those two with the gag orders, what is to really stop them from talking? If they know that something like 9/11 or whatever was a "false flag" operation don't they have a moral imperative (this is assuming that they don't put their life above the well being of our democracy) to expose it?
As Jonny pointed out, it's easy to think there aren't any whistleblowers, and therefore nothing to blow any whistles about, simply because they get stifled, isolated and/or intimidated. Would you endanger your life in that way? It's easily said, but when one's really under threat...

Many people also think it's unrealistic to claim that people are in danger by speaking out. Remember the CIA kidnapped of terror "suspects" deported to Syrian and Egyptian dungeons and tortured? There was one case in Germany where a German-Lebanese truck driver was abducted and tortured because he had the same name as a supposed terrorist. He was just dumped in a Romanian forest and had to find his own way home, and nobody was ever charged or disciplined. The government and the CIA do what they want, that's the truth of the matter.
quartertone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 05:07 PM   #40
Wakeness
Origin Fan
 
Wakeness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,945
Rep Power: 22 Wakeness slam gang member
Alex Jones is a fear-monger and melodramatic, but he's also got a team of people that are constantly researching, and he has insider informants that support his work and provide info for him, much like Daniel Estulin.
I'm not saying that I worship the ground he walks on, or believe everything I hear from him or his related sites, but 90% of his shit is bang on.

For the real history of the globalist movement, A. Ralph Epperson wrote "The unseen hand", which is invaluable.

Tzimisce - I'm not out to impress you, shit-for-brains. You're happy with what CNN tells you, and that's OK with me. Keep up the good work in your mamas basement.
Wakeness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 05:19 PM   #41
modern death
Hails
 
modern death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 13,070
Rep Power: 29 modern death beat up jewski
Wow, who could have guessed this thread would turn into a pile of shit?
modern death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 05:30 PM   #42
LesserAnimal
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,086
Rep Power: 17 LesserAnimal karmablade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeness View Post
Alex Jones is a fear-monger and melodramatic, but he's also got a team of people that are constantly researching, and he has insider informants that support his work and provide info for him, much like Daniel Estulin.
You do have to take the quality of the research, and the judgment, logic, and reasoning involved in collecting and assessing any information they come across.

I have Estulin's book on Bilderberg, but haven't read it yet. I read an excerpt of an encounter between him and two representatives at a bar and it sounded like he was just writing a story. It definitely put me off.
LesserAnimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 05:44 PM   #43
Burnout
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,419
Rep Power: 14 Burnout slam gang member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeness View Post
Alex Jones is a fear-monger and melodramatic, but he's also got a team of people that are constantly researching, and he has insider informants that support his work and provide info for him, much like Daniel Estulin.
I'm not saying that I worship the ground he walks on, or believe everything I hear from him or his related sites, but 90% of his shit is bang on.

For the real history of the globalist movement, A. Ralph Epperson wrote "The unseen hand", which is invaluable.

Tzimisce - I'm not out to impress you, shit-for-brains. You're happy with what CNN tells you, and that's OK with me. Keep up the good work in your mamas basement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity View Post
Wow, who could have guessed this thread would turn into a pile of shit?
What else did you expect to happen?
Burnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 06:45 PM   #44
LesserAnimal
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,086
Rep Power: 17 LesserAnimal karmablade
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_ad...e_US_0809.html

Obviously reporters are terrorist threats.

I wonder how many reporters are on that terrorist watch list that has over one MILLION names on it now.
LesserAnimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 03:47 AM   #45
Moemers
Flower Travelin
 
Moemers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surface of the Sun
Posts: 5,569
Rep Power: 0 Moemers is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesserAnimal View Post
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_ad...e_US_0809.html

Obviously reporters are terrorist threats.

I wonder how many reporters are on that terrorist watch list that has over one MILLION names on it now.
You're probably on it.

/Bush
Moemers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
armchair idealists, heaps of bullshit, lesser wakeness, stfu idiot, tzimisce is a dirty jew, tzimisce likes the cack, wakeness has a bunker, wakeness is dumb, wakeness is retarded




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SMNnews.com: 2002 -