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Old 11-16-2014, 10:53 AM   #331
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Not as awful as the plague that SJWs are. The strange thing is that, in real life I hardly come across persons like that, but the internet seems full of them.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:53 PM   #332
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Some dude named Rolex Dior Johnson, was recently shot here (Detroit)! Not enough posts to post the link. Mah Nigga Rolex be dead y'all.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:38 AM   #333
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by Johnny-Skinless View Post
but the shirt is fucking awful
Yeah, it's not something I would wear, so I won't.

I'm now waiting for someone (most likely a female) to wear a similar style shirt, flipping the gender around etc etc
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:28 AM   #334
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/987...net-neutrality
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:40 PM   #335
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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The weird thing is that this isn't a feminist issue. Unless I understand feminism wrong, which is possible, I've only read so many academic journals about it...

I think people are starting to become caricatures of whatever ism or ideology they believe they fit into. As though they've gone to a shop, decided they want to be, for this story's sake, a conservative and then that means there's aisles of merchandise to advertise that they should be pro-gun, anti-abortion, racist etc etc. They don't even think or know why they stand for such things, but it just fits them and so the rhetoric flows strong. THEN come the reactions, over-hyped media fuelled, sensationalist shit that isn't likely to be close to the actual situation or feeling of the public.

In a sense it is a feminist issue I guess. Sexualization of women is a double edged sword where it can be an independent expression of emancipation as well as something oppressive. Sexual objectification is not something oppressive or negative per se (it is a natural part of physical attraction) but there is however a obvious slant of systematic sexual objectification of women effectively constructing a social narrative where women are supposed to meet certain demands of the male gaze or else their self-worth will be attacked. This shirt adds to that.

IMO, I think this whole debacle is a case of choosing the wrong battle to fight. It's a really weird shirt to wear and it's really weird to refer to the comet as "sexy" but some people treat every symptom of a social problem as a pillar of oppression and I think that's desensitizing and counter-productive.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:05 PM   #336
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

- sit at home paralyzed by boredom/lack of self worth
- watch a TED talk that is essentially a blurb of a Gender Studies 101 class in a liberal arts college
- become a "feminist"
- become a revolutionary activist (complain about a t-shirt)

fuck you.

first world citizens don't have a thing to contribute to the eradication of gender issues. if people are so genuinely concerned about t-shirts, they don't know what real problems are.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:13 PM   #337
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

^^^ Truth
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:41 AM   #338
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Thanks Raad, you're a good bloke.
Oleg also has a pretty valid point, I suppose.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #339
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Best fill in for John Merryman I've seen yet.

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Old 11-18-2014, 07:55 PM   #340
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

If you've ever had dudes creep on you, or worse, you understand where they're coming from. It's a very visceral place they're coming from with all this shit, that's why most of it is usually tasteless and sensationalist.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:01 PM   #341
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Old 11-19-2014, 12:04 AM   #342
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

It sucks that this scientist got in a shitstorm during his 15 minutes but then again I'm sure there are countless people doing equally challenging work who never get 15 minutes in the first place because they aren't working on something "sexy" like a comet landing. If you put yourself out there on the internet you're going to get scrutinized, period.

The shirt can be seen as sexist. Is it a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No, but I think a lot of people have never tried to put themselves in the shoes of a progressive woman. You go about your daily life and you run into frequent little reminders of the patriarchal society that we live in, and you feel you should be free to point these things out. But if you do so you get labelled as the "office feminist" or something, and end up having to put up with the subtle harassment of everyone else belittling your views. Even if they got overblown at times, a lot of "feminist" arguments are perfectly rational yet get brushed off and ridiculed in mainstream society. I would think a lot of metal fans should be able to identify with this. It's somewhat like being a strong atheist and having to live in judeo-christian society. Sure, it's not REAL oppression but it can still fucking suck whenever the majority of the people unthinkingly marginalize you. And it's natural to want to speak up about these things.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:06 AM   #343
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

http://starter-packs.tumblr.com/
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:13 AM   #344
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-state...ly-7000035890/

Last edited by Gangrene; 11-19-2014 at 02:33 AM..
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:14 AM   #345
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit View Post
It's somewhat like being a strong atheist and having to live in judeo-christian society. Sure, it's not REAL oppression but it can still fucking suck whenever the majority of the people unthinkingly marginalize you. And it's natural to want to speak up about these things.
C'mon now. It's a t-shirt of a sexy empowered female with a gun.
The opposite of that would be a fully covered muslim chick being oppressed. Oh but that's a woman doing what she wants to do. She wants to be oppressed so it's okay. Well what if a chick wants to be hot and hold a fucking gun? Also, IT'S A SHIRT!

The shirt isn't even explicit in its message (if it has one), it's not like he was wearing matching sweatpants that said 100% MISOGYNY on them.

The judeo-christian equivalent to this situation would be some christian wearing a shirt of a smug looking empowered atheist holding the god delusion, and then a bunch of atheists complaining and saying they're being oppressed because they're being depicted negatively.

Last edited by _Hez_; 11-19-2014 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:55 AM   #346
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit View Post
It sucks that this scientist got in a shitstorm during his 15 minutes but then again I'm sure there are countless people doing equally challenging work who never get 15 minutes in the first place because they aren't working on something "sexy" like a comet landing. If you put yourself out there on the internet you're going to get scrutinized, period.

The shirt can be seen as sexist. Is it a big deal in the grand scheme of things? No, but I think a lot of people have never tried to put themselves in the shoes of a progressive woman. You go about your daily life and you run into frequent little reminders of the patriarchal society that we live in, and you feel you should be free to point these things out. But if you do so you get labelled as the "office feminist" or something, and end up having to put up with the subtle harassment of everyone else belittling your views. Even if they got overblown at times, a lot of "feminist" arguments are perfectly rational yet get brushed off and ridiculed in mainstream society. I would think a lot of metal fans should be able to identify with this. It's somewhat like being a strong atheist and having to live in judeo-christian society. Sure, it's not REAL oppression but it can still fucking suck whenever the majority of the people unthinkingly marginalize you. And it's natural to want to speak up about these things.
This
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:09 AM   #347
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Russians and their meteorites, super cool.



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bf3_1416311834
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=729_1416378619
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:38 AM   #348
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Quote:
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C'mon now. It's a t-shirt of a sexy empowered female with a gun.
The opposite of that would be a fully covered muslim chick being oppressed. Oh but that's a woman doing what she wants to do. She wants to be oppressed so it's okay. Well what if a chick wants to be hot and hold a fucking gun? Also, IT'S A SHIRT!

The shirt isn't even explicit in its message (if it has one), it's not like he was wearing matching sweatpants that said 100% MISOGYNY on them.

The judeo-christian equivalent to this situation would be some christian wearing a shirt of a smug looking empowered atheist holding the god delusion, and then a bunch of atheists complaining and saying they're being oppressed because they're being depicted negatively.
The part you quoted had nothing to do with the shirt.

The shirt is really not so important. Whenever a feminist gets angry at a shirt or a comment it is because they think it is indicative of an underlying issue.

Gender issues in technical fields are a legitimate concern. I met a couple women who are engineers at Microsoft and they were saying that their departments have about 3 women out of 100 people. How many men would want to work with 97% women? Women can feel out of place in technical fields just based on numbers alone. If you realize that you might understand why some people get very upset about every little thing which might contribute to making women feel unwelcome in these fields.

I am NOT saying I think this guy's shirt is keeping women out of science research. I just think it's important to realize that feminist complaints are typically related to legitimate issues; it is not just a bunch of women whining that sexual objectification "oppresses" them.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:24 PM   #349
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Old 11-19-2014, 06:13 PM   #350
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

Feminism has to go up before it can come down. "Belittling feminism" is an oxymoron.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:09 AM   #351
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

3rd wave feminism helps literally noone. It's a shrill lecture on manners from your spinster aunt masquerading as a social justice movement.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:01 AM   #352
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread



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Old 11-20-2014, 05:57 AM   #353
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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3rd wave feminism helps literally noone. It's a shrill lecture on manners from your spinster aunt masquerading as a social justice movement.
What if your aunt actually had a decent point about your manners? Funny that the content of her suggestion is irrelevant in your example, yet her marital status and tone of voice are used against her.

Look around and you can easily find examples of men unthinkingly speaking or acting in a subtly (or not so subtly) sexist way. If you were a woman, isn't it possible you would want to point it out and try to get men to put themselves in women's shoes? Yet if you do that you're probably going to get ridiculed and told to shut up.

Calling it "manners" is just your way of trivializing issues that are related to social norms rather than laws. Would anyone really argue social norms don't matter? Arguably they influence our behavior even more than the laws do, starting from early childhood.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:14 AM   #354
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Dude used the force through his foot! There's like 6 inches between sole of shoe and contact with face!!
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:44 AM   #355
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit View Post
What if your aunt actually had a decent point about your manners? Funny that the content of her suggestion is irrelevant in your example, yet her marital status and tone of voice are used against her.

Look around and you can easily find examples of men unthinkingly speaking or acting in a subtly (or not so subtly) sexist way. If you were a woman, isn't it possible you would want to point it out and try to get men to put themselves in women's shoes? Yet if you do that you're probably going to get ridiculed and told to shut up.

Calling it "manners" is just your way of trivializing issues that are related to social norms rather than laws. Would anyone really argue social norms don't matter? Arguably they influence our behavior even more than the laws do, starting from early childhood.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:27 AM   #356
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit View Post
The part you quoted had nothing to do with the shirt.
And the technical field example has nothing to do with the shirt.

Your whole example is so presumptuous and it's a total red herring anyway. Maybe some women feel uncomfortable, or maybe some women chose their job because of the actual job. Maybe some women are strong and independent enough that they feel comfortable around people of the opposite sex, even if they're highly outnumbered -- I know, it's hard to imagine.

Maybe some men shy away from secretary work, nursing or teaching because they're dominated by women; but if a women wears a shirt of a hunk shirtless dude, I highly doubt they will make a link at all. Even if they saw a more explicit example of women "objectifying" men, I doubt they would ever say to themselves: "Man, this behavior is the reason why there are so many women in my industry".
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:41 PM   #357
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit View Post
What if your aunt actually had a decent point about your manners? Funny that the content of her suggestion is irrelevant in your example, yet her marital status and tone of voice are used against her.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:14 PM   #358
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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And the technical field example has nothing to do with the shirt.

Your whole example is so presumptuous and it's a total red herring anyway. Maybe some women feel uncomfortable, or maybe some women chose their job because of the actual job. Maybe some women are strong and independent enough that they feel comfortable around people of the opposite sex, even if they're highly outnumbered -- I know, it's hard to imagine.

Maybe some men shy away from secretary work, nursing or teaching because they're dominated by women; but if a women wears a shirt of a hunk shirtless dude, I highly doubt they will make a link at all. Even if they saw a more explicit example of women "objectifying" men, I doubt they would ever say to themselves: "Man, this behavior is the reason why there are so many women in my industry".
Why are you making up these strange hypotheticals? There exists no culture of women using men's sexuality against them but there's a 2000+ year old tradition of men doing that. How is it implausible that this concept didn't just magically vanish after the 90s or whatever is your imaginary point in history for when sexism ended?
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:27 PM   #359
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by _Hez_ View Post
And the technical field example has nothing to do with the shirt.

Your whole example is so presumptuous and it's a total red herring anyway. Maybe some women feel uncomfortable, or maybe some women chose their job because of the actual job. Maybe some women are strong and independent enough that they feel comfortable around people of the opposite sex, even if they're highly outnumbered -- I know, it's hard to imagine.

Maybe some men shy away from secretary work, nursing or teaching because they're dominated by women; but if a women wears a shirt of a hunk shirtless dude, I highly doubt they will make a link at all. Even if they saw a more explicit example of women "objectifying" men, I doubt they would ever say to themselves: "Man, this behavior is the reason why there are so many women in my industry".
Agree with what Raad said. But also, like I tried to point out, I really am not saying the shirt keeps women out of science. My main point here is that, we can argue about the details of any particular example, but give the feminists a little bit of slack because it's hard to fight against social norms without missing the mark at times and irritating people.

Also, your point about men shying away from female oriented fields is an important one. "Feminism" is maybe the wrong term at this point; we call it that but I think the movement also helps men who are in fields like nursing or secretary work. I think there are gender role issues for men as well, for example teen males may have emotional problems because they can't live up to sexual or physical expectations or aren't comfortable with their emotions. But it's often "feminists" who care about these things, more than the supposed MRA's.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:27 PM   #360
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Re: The (new) Fail/Win Thread

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Originally Posted by Raad View Post
Why are you making up these strange hypotheticals? There exists no culture of women using men's sexuality against them but there's a 2000+ year old tradition of men doing that. How is it implausible that this concept didn't just magically vanish after the 90s or whatever is your imaginary point in history for when sexism ended?
The examples are analogies to his examples. If mine don't make sense, then his don't make sense. Exclaiming "...but sexism" and making an appeal to tradition isn't a justification.

Also, historically, men use sex against everyone, regardless of gender. It's a classic power play that we can still see remnants of today (prisons). Are you saying the t-shirt invokes this history? Are you saying that it invokes the unfortunate fact that most of this power play was likely heterosexual in nature and is meant to rub it in womens faces "Ha-ha!"? What exactly are you saying?

Let me raise your consciousness for a second:
  • Strippers exist.
  • Sexy women exist.
  • Sexy women with guns exist.
  • Sexy lingerie exists, it's no longer taboo to dress sexy.

In these examples, it's not necessarily the case that they're being oppressed by virtue of sex being used. Sex can be the end result, not just a means to something malicious.
How do you reconcile your view of the world with the reality of this world, where woman are now confident enough to flaunt their sexyness independently? Do you think they are doing a disservice to feminism? If the shirt in question is justified in making people upset, should swimsuit models make people upset? Should they cover up? Are fully covered muslim women bastions of modern day feminsism?
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