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Old 08-04-2008, 12:27 AM   #31
INCINERATE
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I will not be voting for either of these people, as they are the same person. Most likely (and unfortunately), I will not vote at all. I will not vote for the lesser of two evils. Neither of these two plan to solve any "real" problems that are affecting real people.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:28 AM   #32
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Yeah, I believe we're fucked either way.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:32 AM   #33
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Oh, and by the way, simply putting in a google search for "Obama socialist" isn't gonna yield you any truthful or accurate results about his actual policy positions. Try searching for "Obama policy positions" instead. Then post the results, and try explaining how any of what you see is tantamount to socialism.
Moron.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:47 AM   #34
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I will not be voting for either of these people, as they are the same person.
This is just ridiculous. It's one thing to say that there is a wider spectrum of legitimate (and perhaps even superior) political beliefs that are not represented by either candidate. Or that there are deep rooted problems that no mainstream candidate will be able to adequately resolve. But saying the two are the same is simply not true. I don't understand how people can keep telling themselves that.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:48 AM   #35
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Cynicism and pretentiousness would be my answer.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:11 AM   #36
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They both are annoying shills, under the control of special interests, I wanted Ron Paul or Mike gravel to win, but maybe Obama is less likely to start ww3.

Wasnt it funny the day after Obama was nominated he gave a huge pandering speech to the Israeli Lobby? WTF? To get elected in America you have to get support from a FOREIGN lobby, yeah that makes sense. America has turned into a shithole, the founders would be ashamed.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:15 AM   #37
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I love how AIPAC is called 'The Israel Lobby' when they only represent the far-right wing of Israeli politics.

But I guess tinfoil 'tards wouldn't understand nuances like that.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:16 AM   #38
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They both are annoying shills, under the control of special interests, I wanted Ron Paul or Mike gravel to win, but maybe Obama is less likely to start ww3.

Wasnt it funny the day after Obama was nominated he gave a huge pandering speech to the Israeli Lobby? WTF? To get elected in America you have to get support from a FOREIGN lobby, yeah that makes sense. America has turned into a shithole, the founders would be ashamed.

Mike Gravel didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell, but I was hoping for Ron Paul.

I even switched to the dreaded (R) so I could vote for him in the primary.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:18 AM   #39
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Voting for Ron Paul is like taking a sugar pill and hoping that it cures your cancer.

The guy would've been a great candidate if the political climate of today was the same as it was in 1952. But it's not.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:35 AM   #40
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I love how AIPAC is called 'The Israel Lobby' when they only represent the far-right wing of Israeli politics.
Considering how many lobby organisations they bring together, that's highly unlikely.

Only in America could someone like Obama be considered a "socialist" or "far left" politician.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:37 AM   #41
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Maybe then you should shut the fuck up and leave discussion to those who know what they're talking about.
Whatever, I didn't come to a death metal forum seeking intelligent political debate.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:40 AM   #42
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I love how AIPAC is called 'The Israel Lobby' when they only represent the far-right wing of Israeli politics.
The kind of Israel-related politics they represent is the kind that has currency in America. For something further to the left you have to go to Israel itself.

EDIT: that's how they refer to themselves too.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:49 AM   #43
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I'm all for Obama.
your sigpic is epic and one of the funniest things ive ever seen
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:50 AM   #44
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Considering how many lobby organisations they bring together, that's highly unlikely.
That's somewhat of a myth. It's true that AIPAC is the predominant Israeli lobbying organization in the U.S., and receives funding from a variety of sources, its political voice is almost exclusively that of the right-wing Likud party of Israel. AIPAC is widely criticized in Israel on those very grounds. Haaretz [one of the 2 largest newspapers in Israel, and the left-leaning competitor of The Jerusalem Post] is frequently critical of AIPAC for essentially drowning out the voice of Israel's majority population, which is typically left-of-center and is represented by the Labor party predominantly.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:19 AM   #45
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Well yes, my point was that Israel itself is for the most part rather further left than its American representatives suggest. Bodies like H'aaretz or Tel Aviv University are certainly not suitable allies for neocon or militant Zionist agendas.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:25 AM   #46
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Have you heard about J-Street?
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:48 AM   #47
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I hadn't, no. Just looked it up - it's encouraging to see such things, but there's always the question of how much effect they will have with all the powerful competition.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:56 AM   #48
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i SO hope obama will be the new president!

and even more i hope this guy will sign the kyoto deal asap!
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:59 AM   #49
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Don't count on it. He's modified his messages for different audiences a few times so far, and I don't think he's going to stray as far to the left as some people believe.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:09 AM   #50
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it would be good for the environment though.
its unbelievable every country signed it exept america.
wonder whats wrong with you guys ;)
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:07 AM   #51
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obama is all about wealth redistribution, i.e. "fairness," he wants to raise taxes on EVERYTHING, he wants to DOUBLE capital gain taxes, he wants nationalized healthcare (i.e. socialized medicine), he is anti-gun, anti-capitalist, extreme environazi, etc etc.

it really pisses me off when politicians talk about taxing the rich in order to solve all problems. yeah, great, lets NOT give people incentive to work hard and attain wealth
I love the American ideology of success and wealth. Apparently there is no such thing as economic injustice; everyone who gets rich does so purely through hard work and therefore deserves every cent, while everyone who is not well-off is clearly lazy or otherwise inferior. The notion that many people get lucky breaks on the way to success, and that capitalism hinges on exploitation, is unheard-of. So it's equally inconceivable to these ideologues that some people are poor not because they're lazy bums, but because they inherited disadvantages and/or had bad luck in various ways in their lives. Ignorance really is bliss.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:15 AM   #52
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as much as I use to bitch about people not voting.... well, lol.

staying home on election day this year.
DON'T!!! For the love of fucking god!!!

Throngs of people have died and are still dying this day to obtain the freedom you retards piss away because you're too lazy to get off the couch. Jesus Christ. Go fucking vote, you less-than-humans.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:21 AM   #53
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I'll vote for Obama, I think. I haven't really decided yet, since I haven't done any research on the subject yet. My dad is voting for him, and he's a republican, so that's gotta mean something.

To all the people who aren't voting: I hope you know that you are in no position to complain about the outcome. And what Antæos said.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:46 AM   #54
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This is just ridiculous. It's one thing to say that there is a wider spectrum of legitimate (and perhaps even superior) political beliefs that are not represented by either candidate. Or that there are deep rooted problems that no mainstream candidate will be able to adequately resolve. But saying the two are the same is simply not true. I don't understand how people can keep telling themselves that.
It doen't matter which one becomes president, it's going to be business as usual in the White House. The issues that actually have an affect on you and me, are still going to be there for the next 4 years. Both of these Candidates are owned by the same groups of people, so it doesn't matter to them which one wins, just as long as one of them does. And one of them will.

Ron Paul wasn't owned by anyone. He actually did have a chance at winning some states. But the GOP did everything in their power and beyond their power to make sure McCain won every state. I was heavily involved in the Republican party all the way up to Minnesota's state convention. I saw so much corruption and manipulation. The people's voice did not give McCain the nomination, the GOP (and those behind the scenes) did.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:53 AM   #55
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Neither of the above. I am voting for Bob Barr.

Obama has socialist tendencies. His talk of raising the capital gains tax is pure foolishness and his demagoguery sickens me due to its childishness. 'Let's tax the rich' is nothing but rhetoric belonging to class warfare.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:54 AM   #56
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DON'T!!! For the love of fucking god!!!

Throngs of people have died and are still dying this day to obtain the freedom you retards piss away because you're too lazy to get off the couch. Jesus Christ. Go fucking vote, you less-than-humans.
While I agree, most people don't vote because they are too lazy or know nothing about the candidates, so they figure why bother, I and many others will not be voting this time around because we are sick and tired of voting for a hand picked, corporate owned, candidate that we don't support, just so we can walk around the rest of the day with an "I Voted" sticker on our shirt. Hell personal freedom isn't even a part of either of these candidates platform.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:14 AM   #57
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Lets hope whoever gets the most votes actually wins this election.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:19 AM   #58
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Throngs of people have died and are still dying this day to obtain the freedom you retards piss away because you're too lazy to get off the couch. Jesus Christ. Go fucking vote, you less-than-humans.
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To all the people who aren't voting: I hope you know that you are in no position to complain about the outcome. And what Antæos said.
You guys don't really understand how voting in America works. The popular vote does not decide the victor. The electoral college decides. Say, I live in New York, which is a Democratic State. The state will ALWAYS vote Democrat. John McCain could win the popular vote in NY and we would still be a blue state. So, it's not that we aren't getting off the couch, its that we are completely disenfranchised with this nation and its policy of deception towards its citizens. And, I personally am also upset with the citizens for not being informed, and getting all of their opinions from cable news channels. They are not to be trusted. Read a book, please. Either way, the same lobbys control almost all politicians in this nation. We are fucked and I'm surprised that only a little more than half of the country realizes this.

So far, incinerate is the only realist in this thread.

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Old 08-04-2008, 10:32 AM   #59
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so in other words, your entire electoral system is one big crock of shit?
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:40 AM   #60
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so in other words, your entire electoral system is one big crock of shit?
Exactly
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