Recommend some anime - Page 4

Skull Knight · 10-08-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disGUSt(tx)

Yeah, I really liked that episode haha.

The reason shonen anime often contain animation flaws because of the strict deadlines and ongoing, long storylines. Tell me which shonen series doesn't. Shippuden generally looks amazing.

The flaws Shippuden has is a lot more than say One Piece for instance. OP has had a few episodes where the animation quality dropped, but not as bad as that clip we saw. One Piece, in terms of story, is far better than Naruto or Bleach. Naruto stopped being good right after Jiraiya met Pain, for me at least just as I feel like Death Note got all predictable after L's death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowHunter

hokuto no ken, saint seiya, ronin warriors > all these narutos and inuyasha's of yours

ATATATATATATATA, motherfuckers!

Haha all awesome for sure. What do you think of Yu Yu Hakusho, or Flame Of Recca?

Anyone into series on sports like Slam Dunk, Eyeshield 21, Major, Hajime No Ippo, Whistle, Initial D, Aoki Densetsu Shoot!, Captain Tsubasa Road to 2002, Ace wo Nerae!, Capeta, Buzzer Beater? I see Air Gear's mentioned.

RottingBeercan · 10-09-2010, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPuu9RMsa1Y

lol the looney tunes antics in anime are always great

disGUSt(tx) · 10-09-2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

The flaws Shippuden has is a lot more than say One Piece for instance. OP has had a few episodes where the animation quality dropped, but not as bad as that clip we saw. One Piece, in terms of story, is far better than Naruto or Bleach. Naruto stopped being good right after Jiraiya met Pain, for me at least just as I feel like Death Note got all predictable after L's death.

I read One Piece, so I can't really comment on its animation. I gave it a try and decided I liked the manga better, which is usually the case, unless I'm introduced to the anime first.

Stupefaction · 10-09-2010, 02:39 AM

The only anime I ever really liked was Yu Yu Hakusho and Ruroni Kenshin.

Skull Knight · 10-09-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disGUSt(tx)

I read One Piece, so I can't really comment on its animation. I gave it a try and decided I liked the manga better, which is usually the case, unless I'm introduced to the anime first.

The anime series is actually pretty good. The Thriller Bark arc for me was just too slow, and the 4-5 bad animation episodes surface in the Impel Down arc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stupefaction

The only anime I ever really liked was Yu Yu Hakusho and Ruroni Kenshin.

Gems, they don't make it like these today. Super awesome soundtracks on both, Shishio, Hiko SeiojuroXIII and Saito were my favorite characters off Kenshin.

Black Lagoon's new OVA anyone?

disGUSt(tx) · 10-09-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stupefaction

The only anime I ever really liked was Yu Yu Hakusho and Ruroni Kenshin.

Good place to start! Yu Yu Hakusho is strong enough of a shonen anime that it doesn't rely heavily on a theme, such as ninja or pirates, much like Dragon Ball.

Rurouni Kenshin is amazing if you can make it all the way to the Kyoto arc without giving up. I definitely enjoy the historical fiction perspective of it, as with the Meiji era in Japan, there really was a detente of anxious sword happy samurai who were jobless and unhappy with their new world.

BZM · 10-09-2010, 12:22 PM

the rurouni kenshin and berserk mangas are the two greatest things ever

the trigun anime was perfection

and golden boy is probably the best undiscovered comedy gem

RottingBeercan · 10-09-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disGUSt(tx)

I definitely enjoy the historical fiction perspective of it

i loved that about Samurai Champloo too. also it was cool that at the same time the historical styles always clashed together with modern styles and references. loved all the hip hop stuff in that show. also created by the same genius behind Cowboy Bebop so you know it's gonna be good to watch for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. it's short like bebop, which really leaves you wanting more, but at the same time it's good that it ends and doesn't drag on.

Naitz · 10-11-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

Have you guys watched Initial D?

So I watched Initial D stage 1,2,3(movie) and 4. Don't gonna do the special stages.
I think it's pretty cool basically, but too many story-arcs that are boring. Stage one was definitely cool, but got a little lame at the end and stage too bored me. 3 and 4 where cool again, but the last episodes of 4 sucked, no conclusion/real high point at all. Also the music sucks really hard, annoyed the shit out of me sometimes, visual quality isn't exactly great either. I guess one needs to have a fable for racing to enjoy it at all.
Definitely got me in the mood for racing though, now I just need an Impreza.

Also started with the all new and apparently hyped Ore No Imouto.
Only two eps so far, but they seem very promising. Cool theme, excellent character design, general the visual quality is very good.

Relating Manga: The only one I read for some time was Ranma 1/2, which is hilarious. Pretty much all comics that interested me in my life where of the comedy sort, I can't immerse into a serious storyline if it's just black&white and in a reduced style (like most? Manga?)
I saw some screens lately of one that is about a cockroach (looked more like a girl with a cape though), living in the real world, that looked pretty cool.

Skull Knight · 10-12-2010, 08:50 PM

That Trueno was classy eeh. I liked the dynamics of the first 2 seasons and ofcourse Bunta's THE man. Ore No Imouto is fun eehhh ... check Shinryaku Ika Musume. Another fun anime is ... what's it called ... ah! *bingo* ... Umisho.

Ranma 1/2 is so much fun. If you like fun and mecha, you must've checked out Gurren Laggan I guess. There's upgrade after upgrade after epicness to proportions you'd least expect.

I love all sorts of styles or genres, as long as it doesn't bore me. There was a time I couldn't stand cutesy anime because it was SO derivative, but there're always a few good gems here and there. Wait, have you watched Outlaw Star yet? Ergo Proxy's another dense anime series that not a lot of people understood or watched only cos it looked 'cool' versus what it stood for. Gankutsuou is SO under-rated, everything about it is good. What about Rahxephon? Planetes? Legend Of The Galactic Heroes? Aria (The Animation, The Natural, The Origination - i.e. 3 separate series), Special A, Ouran High School Club, Monster, Cromatarie High School, The Vision Of Escaflowne to name a few. Ofcourse then there's a few series I wouldn't recommend cos it'd break you :-)

disGUSt(tx) · 10-12-2010, 08:58 PM

I'm not a shojo fan at all. Can't stand the stuff. Only Sailor Moon (actually a shonen anime if you ask me) and Azumnga Daioh. My roommate reads Fushigi Yugi. Fuck that.

I have been trying to finish Gurren Laggen for ever. When it comes to mecha stuff I just stick to Gundam shit and NGE.

Skull Knight · 10-12-2010, 09:18 PM

Haha where're you at with Gurren by the way? The last few episodes get epic, and you need booze to enjoy it. I didn't get the hype either, but it's just ridiculous.

Naitz · 10-12-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

That Trueno was classy eeh. I liked the dynamics of the first 2 seasons and ofcourse Bunta's THE man. Ore No Imouto is fun eehhh ... check Shinryaku Ika Musume. Another fun anime is ... what's it called ... ah! *bingo* ... Umisho.

Ranma 1/2 is so much fun. If you like fun and mecha, you must've checked out Gurren Laggan I guess. There's upgrade after upgrade after epicness to proportions you'd least expect.

I love all sorts of styles or genres, as long as it doesn't bore me. There was a time I couldn't stand cutesy anime because it was SO derivative, but there're always a few good gems here and there. Wait, have you watched Outlaw Star yet? Ergo Proxy's another dense anime series that not a lot of people understood or watched only cos it looked 'cool' versus what it stood for. Gankutsuou is SO under-rated, everything about it is good. What about Rahxephon? Planetes? Legend Of The Galactic Heroes? Aria (The Animation, The Natural, The Origination - i.e. 3 separate series), Special A, Ouran High School Club, Monster, Cromatarie High School, The Vision Of Escaflowne to name a few. Ofcourse then there's a few series I wouldn't recommend cos it'd break you :-)

I don't know any of these, but I only started about 2 or 3 years ago with seriously watching anime. Hell I watched 400 episodes of One Piece in about a month, now I can't stand it anymore. Considering how much awesome shit is out there I wonder why I even bothered. Probably cuz I liked it when I was younger.

Definitely gonna check out Gurren Laggan, that an FLCL are next.

"Ofcourse then there's a few series I wouldn't recommend cos it'd break you :-)" Why? Because they're even more tear-inducing than Clannad?
If so, drop some names, it's not like I'm that weak.

Also I agree with DisGUSt(tx), Sailor Moon being shonen. Practically all girls that I know just laughed about that shit, the sexiness of the protagonists is just too blatant.

disGUSt(tx) · 10-12-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

Haha where're you at with Gurren by the way? The last few episodes get epic, and you need booze to enjoy it. I didn't get the hype either, but it's just ridiculous.

Episode 10. Its been 6 months. Compared to other series of its length (Speed Grapher, Basilisk, even Last Exile and S.E. Lain) its hasn't been too captivating. But it also took me over a month to finish Speed Grapher, so go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaitsabesWinklersson

FLCL

You will not be disappointed. Watch it now, its only like 4 episodes.

EDIT: I nominate this thread for stickying simply because if I could come to talk about Death Metal and anime in the same place, well that would rule.

Skull Knight · 10-13-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaitsabesWinklersson

I don't know any of these, but I only started about 2 or 3 years ago with seriously watching anime. Hell I watched 400 episodes of One Piece in about a month, now I can't stand it anymore. Considering how much awesome shit is out there I wonder why I even bothered. Probably cuz I liked it when I was younger.

Definitely gonna check out Gurren Laggan, that an FLCL are next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by disGUSt(tx)

Episode 10. Its been 6 months. Compared to other series of its length (Speed Grapher, Basilisk, even Last Exile and S.E. Lain) its hasn't been too captivating. But it also took me over a month to finish Speed Grapher, so go figure.

Gurren Laggan actually bored me a bit till you get through half way into the series, and everything after that is straight uphill. I recommend watching it when you have some company. Ofcourse, the easy way out is to watch the movies to get a gist of what happens, yeah you also get to see a cool battle that isn't in the anime series (but is in the manga), and overall well, it's short right?

Basilisk was eeehhh, I wish I could get myself to like it, fell short by the time we got to the end of it.

One Piece is actually pretty good in terms of the story being consistent through it's 590+ chapters (manga), it's remarkable. If you guys read manga, I could throw in some reccos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaitsabesWinklersson

"Ofcourse then there's a few series I wouldn't recommend cos it'd break you :-)" Why? Because they're even more tear-inducing than Clannad?
If so, drop some names, it's not like I'm that weak.

Clannad was ... well, fun. If you're up for it, watch School Days, it's just 12 episodes long, and I won't say more. Speaking of Clannad, you watched Clannad The Afterstory too I presume? Kanon is close to Clannad or even Air. Try Bamboo Blade, if you're looking for some fun. There's also coughLuckyStarcough

disGUSt(tx) · 10-13-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

Basilisk was eeehhh, I wish I could get myself to like it, fell short by the time we got to the end of it.

Really? Having the ninjas die off in the way that they did kept me interested. I would go as far as to say its my favorite Gonzo series. One of my favorite studios.

But anyways I dug Basilisk from the get-go because its heavy on historical references, and the original story was taken from a novel based on old Japanese ninjutsu legendary. Alot of interest cultural references, and I've always ninjas are really fucking cool.

BTW I've always had issues finding a good 3x3 dubbed complete collection. Its always been one of my favorites, I rented it early as kid and it was one the first really good anime I ever saw. Highly recommended.

Naitz · 10-13-2010, 01:00 AM

@Skull Knight
You saw my list and even said it was good lol.
I mentioned School days and Kanon there. School Days isn't tear-inducing at all imo, it's too fucked up, and the end is just super sick, but not sad.
Kanon is pretty sad yes, but after all it's too unrealistic, I couldn't take it seriously.
And yes I watched both Clannad, without After Story it would be pointless.

disGUSt(tx) · 10-13-2010, 02:17 AM

Forgot all about this awesome one, must see:

Cognitive Defeat · 10-13-2010, 01:59 PM

I've seen maybe half of the films posted in here, I'm into most of them but what I really want to know is this:

Can anyone recommend any anime where the exposition isn't mainly based on monologues?

It's really annoying being constantly told what's going on. It's just such a weak story-telling tool to have characters talking to themselves constantly.

Skull Knight · 10-16-2010, 11:17 AM

Yeah, the disappointment's all in the end of Basilisk heheh disGUSt(tx). Don't get me wrong, I liked it but it didn't make me want to go own it.

Ohh shoot NaitsabesWinklersson, I must've missed it. I should really stop posting when I'm all sleepy >_<'

Cognitive Defeat, what sort of genre are you looking at - Comedy/ Drama/ Mecha/ Action-Adventure?

Cognitive Defeat · 10-16-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skull Knight

Yeah, the disappointment's all in the end of Basilisk heheh disGUSt(tx). Don't get me wrong, I liked it but it didn't make me want to go own it.

Ohh shoot NaitsabesWinklersson, I must've missed it. I should really stop posting when I'm all sleepy >_<'

Cognitive Defeat, what sort of genre are you looking at - Comedy/ Drama/ Mecha/ Action-Adventure?

Well I don't think I've seen much/ any comedy or drama anime. Any recommendations?

Naitz · 10-19-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

check Shinryaku Ika Musume.

Watched the two episodes. Really cute and funny, the squid-ink gags where fucking hilarious.

I also checked out FLCL, two and a half episodes, but I don't really like it. What's the point? There doesn't seem be a story at all, just a giant mess.

I totally forgot about this one earlier:

Elfenlied, really sick and with great music and charaters.

ShadowHunter · 10-19-2010, 08:02 PM

saw Yukikaze yesterday. pretty decent (quite above average by the usual weeaboo standards) and a definite rec. (and it's not long.. only 5 episodes, although 2 are double). pretty good dogfights, design, cgi and solid story

Transient · 10-19-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cognitive Defeat

Well I don't think I've seen much/ any comedy or drama anime. Any recommendations?

to be a man you must have honor

honor and a peeeeenuss

(shinchan)

Naitz · 10-23-2010, 10:10 AM

Some stuff I've checked out over the past weeks:

Gurren Lagann:
Watched all 27 eps. Really cool Mecha anime. Good character design (Yoko in the first half is probably the hottest anime-chick ever) and the story is well written, it really draws you in, with almost no filler stuff.

Arakawa under the bridge:
Anime about a rich guy that is rescued by a girl that lives under a bridge with a very strange community of people. He now has to live there too, and manage to love this girl, so that he can go back to normal life, or so I understand. Watched only 6 eps so far.
Seems cool basically, but it's a little too weird for me; the actions don't follow a clear story-path, many characters are super-moronic. It's also a little slow.

The World God only knows:
New anime, watched only 2 eps so far. It's about an eroge-gamer that now has to make girls love him in real-life because he unintentionally made a pact with the devil. A female demon helps him accomplish the pact. Was pretty funny so far, will definitely continue watching.

Bakuman:
Only 3 eps out so far. It's about two guys that want to become mangaka.
It is realistic, but still has a subtle humor, and discusses questions of sense and purpose in life. I thought it was pretty good.

Soredemo Machi wa Mawatteiru:
A new and supposedly funny anime about an ugly, not-sexy and not clumsy girl that works in a shitty maid-café, where the boss is a cross-dressed old man and there are no custumers whatsoever. Strangely enough, the café seems of the rather eloquent and expensive sort if you look at the interiour. Watched only 2 eps, but I hated it with my whole heart, the most stupid and ugly main character ever, and the scenes that are supposed to be funny just aren't.

Somnium · 10-23-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

to be a man you must have honor

honor and a peeeeenuss

(shinchan)

Shinchan is amazing. Action Bastard!!!

SwedeMetal · 10-24-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disGUSt(tx)

Forgot all about this awesome one, must see:

Great recommendation. Really enjoyed this.

disGUSt(tx) · 10-24-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedeMetal

Great recommendation. Really enjoyed this.

Yeah, I was wondering when someone was gonna catch that! Just in case you folks haven't figured it out yet, Katsuhiro Otomo has classics OTHER than Akira.

Should you be so lucky to come across it, read Katsuhiro Otomo's pre-Akira single volume manga called "Domu." It was pretty sweet.

modern death · 10-24-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BZM

and golden boy is probably the best undiscovered comedy gem

lol, yep. untouchable.

Skull Knight · 10-25-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaitsabesWinklersson

Watched the two episodes. Really cute and funny, the squid-ink gags where fucking hilarious.

I also checked out FLCL, two and a half episodes, but I don't really like it. What's the point? There doesn't seem be a story at all, just a giant mess.

I totally forgot about this one earlier:

Elfenlied, really sick and with great music and charaters.

Glad you're liking Shinryaku Ika Musume so far. FLCL's popular because of it's unique concept. Elfen's just good badass~ry. Short and sweet. Gurren Lagann's last few episodes are just ridiculous *galaxy fights* haha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowHunter

saw Yukikaze yesterday. pretty decent (quite above average by the usual weeaboo standards) and a definite rec. (and it's not long.. only 5 episodes, although 2 are double). pretty good dogfights, design, cgi and solid story

Whoa, that's an old series! I remember the cool as hell dog-fights between Rei and what's his name. Green thin sexy planes *bits fingers*. Some of the best dog-fights are seen on Macross Zero and Macross Frontier. I'd recommend watching the Macross series in order if you haven't already.

10-13-2010, 01:59 PM	#109
Cognitive Defeat Blackened Bluesgaze Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 7,626 Rep Power: 22	I've seen maybe half of the films posted in here, I'm into most of them but what I really want to know is this: Can anyone recommend any anime where the exposition isn't mainly based on monologues? It's really annoying being constantly told what's going on. It's just such a weak story-telling tool to have characters talking to themselves constantly. Last edited by Cognitive Defeat; 10-13-2010 at 02:01 PM..

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10-09-2010, 02:39 AM	#94
Stupefaction Tom Servo Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: PA Posts: 5,726 Rep Power: 19	The only anime I ever really liked was Yu Yu Hakusho and Ruroni Kenshin.

10-09-2010, 12:22 PM	#97
BZM desolate Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kennewick Posts: 15,300 Rep Power: 30	the rurouni kenshin and berserk mangas are the two greatest things ever the trigun anime was perfection and golden boy is probably the best undiscovered comedy gem

10-12-2010, 08:50 PM	#100
Skull Knight Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Elfhelm Posts: 1,352 Rep Power: 11	That Trueno was classy eeh. I liked the dynamics of the first 2 seasons and ofcourse Bunta's THE man. Ore No Imouto is fun eehhh ... check Shinryaku Ika Musume. Another fun anime is ... what's it called ... ah! bingo ... Umisho. Ranma 1/2 is so much fun. If you like fun and mecha, you must've checked out Gurren Laggan I guess. There's upgrade after upgrade after epicness to proportions you'd least expect. I love all sorts of styles or genres, as long as it doesn't bore me. There was a time I couldn't stand cutesy anime because it was SO derivative, but there're always a few good gems here and there. Wait, have you watched Outlaw Star yet? Ergo Proxy's another dense anime series that not a lot of people understood or watched only cos it looked 'cool' versus what it stood for. Gankutsuou is SO under-rated, everything about it is good. What about Rahxephon? Planetes? Legend Of The Galactic Heroes? Aria (The Animation, The Natural, The Origination - i.e. 3 separate series), Special A, Ouran High School Club, Monster, Cromatarie High School, The Vision Of Escaflowne to name a few. Ofcourse then there's a few series I wouldn't recommend cos it'd break you :-)

10-12-2010, 08:58 PM	#101
disGUSt(tx) Satanic WarTroll Join Date: May 2009 Location: Then: Houston, TX Now: Palm Springs, CA Posts: 4,141 Rep Power: 15	I'm not a shojo fan at all. Can't stand the stuff. Only Sailor Moon (actually a shonen anime if you ask me) and Azumnga Daioh. My roommate reads Fushigi Yugi. Fuck that. I have been trying to finish Gurren Laggen for ever. When it comes to mecha stuff I just stick to Gundam shit and NGE.

10-12-2010, 09:18 PM	#102
Skull Knight Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Elfhelm Posts: 1,352 Rep Power: 11	Haha where're you at with Gurren by the way? The last few episodes get epic, and you need booze to enjoy it. I didn't get the hype either, but it's just ridiculous.

10-13-2010, 01:00 AM	#107
Naitz Grim Fandango Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 4,590 Rep Power: 19	@Skull Knight You saw my list and even said it was good lol. I mentioned School days and Kanon there. School Days isn't tear-inducing at all imo, it's too fucked up, and the end is just super sick, but not sad. Kanon is pretty sad yes, but after all it's too unrealistic, I couldn't take it seriously. And yes I watched both Clannad, without After Story it would be pointless.

10-13-2010, 02:17 AM	#108
disGUSt(tx) Satanic WarTroll Join Date: May 2009 Location: Then: Houston, TX Now: Palm Springs, CA Posts: 4,141 Rep Power: 15	Forgot all about this awesome one, must see:

10-16-2010, 11:17 AM	#110
Skull Knight Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Elfhelm Posts: 1,352 Rep Power: 11	Yeah, the disappointment's all in the end of Basilisk heheh disGUSt(tx). Don't get me wrong, I liked it but it didn't make me want to go own it. Ohh shoot NaitsabesWinklersson, I must've missed it. I should really stop posting when I'm all sleepy >_<' Cognitive Defeat, what sort of genre are you looking at - Comedy/ Drama/ Mecha/ Action-Adventure?

10-19-2010, 08:02 PM	#113
ShadowHunter violently violating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: croatia Posts: 6,598 Rep Power: 22	saw Yukikaze yesterday. pretty decent (quite above average by the usual weeaboo standards) and a definite rec. (and it's not long.. only 5 episodes, although 2 are double). pretty good dogfights, design, cgi and solid story

10-23-2010, 10:10 AM	#115
Naitz Grim Fandango Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 4,590 Rep Power: 19	Some stuff I've checked out over the past weeks: Gurren Lagann: Watched all 27 eps. Really cool Mecha anime. Good character design (Yoko in the first half is probably the hottest anime-chick ever) and the story is well written, it really draws you in, with almost no filler stuff. Arakawa under the bridge: Anime about a rich guy that is rescued by a girl that lives under a bridge with a very strange community of people. He now has to live there too, and manage to love this girl, so that he can go back to normal life, or so I understand. Watched only 6 eps so far. Seems cool basically, but it's a little too weird for me; the actions don't follow a clear story-path, many characters are super-moronic. It's also a little slow. The World God only knows: New anime, watched only 2 eps so far. It's about an eroge-gamer that now has to make girls love him in real-life because he unintentionally made a pact with the devil. A female demon helps him accomplish the pact. Was pretty funny so far, will definitely continue watching. Bakuman: Only 3 eps out so far. It's about two guys that want to become mangaka. It is realistic, but still has a subtle humor, and discusses questions of sense and purpose in life. I thought it was pretty good. Soredemo Machi wa Mawatteiru: A new and supposedly funny anime about an ugly, not-sexy and not clumsy girl that works in a shitty maid-café, where the boss is a cross-dressed old man and there are no custumers whatsoever. Strangely enough, the café seems of the rather eloquent and expensive sort if you look at the interiour. Watched only 2 eps, but I hated it with my whole heart, the most stupid and ugly main character ever, and the scenes that are supposed to be funny just aren't.