Being an atheist is as foolish as being religious.

[Decrepit Birtha]

TRUTH!

[Reincremation]

nah. it really isn't at all. agnostics = pussies. make up your mind.

[Decrepit Birtha]

nah. it really isn't at all. agnostics = pussies. make up your mind. An agnostic isn't someone who is confused. An agnostic says there is no way of knowing what is out there. Saying there is no god is as dumb as saying there is a god, because these are things we have no way of knowing. So being agnostic is the intelligent answer.

[Decrepit Birtha]

AGNOSTIC

a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

[PATAKLYSM]

I am my own god

[lust4gore]

fuck religion, i'm my own savior.

[Decrepit Birtha]

I am my own god Good answer.

[Tomes of Deceit]

AGNOSTIC

a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Human knowledge is of course limited to experience, but I wouldn't want to call myself agnostic anymore because i DEFINITELY don't believe that there is possibly any god in the traditional sense that people define it. The only type of god that could feasibly exist is the type that has no human characteristics whatsoever, the type that you can not even know the essence of or begin to talk about it's "plan" or what it thinks is good or bad. It is contradictory to think that an omnipresent and omniscient being could have morals IMO. Point is, the only god I can even see existing is the type of essence of the universe that an athiest might just consider to be the universe itself, which in fact is what I feel.

It has been argued that athiests and deists often believe very close to the same thing, but the difference is what they CALL what they are talking about. I still think that as an individual you should decide whether you BELIEVE if there is a deity or not. Reincremation is right, agnostics just arent making their mind or looking at themself hard enough to really know what they feel.

The fact that no one can truly KNOW the answer to this question is a given that all but the most brainwashed will see immediately, so basing an ideology on it is pointless.

[Decrepit Birtha]

Human knowledge is of course limited to experience, but I wouldn't want to call myself agnostic anymore because i DEFINITELY don't believe that there is possibly any god in the traditional sense that people define it. The only type of god that could feasibly exist is the type that has no human characteristics whatsoever, the type that you can not even know the essence of or begin to talk about it's "plan" or what it thinks is good or bad. It is contradictory to think that an omnipresent and omniscient being could have morals IMO. Point is, the only god I can even see existing is the type of essence of the universe that an athiest might just consider to be the universe itself, which in fact is what I feel.

It has been argued that athiests and deists often believe very close to the same thing, but the difference is what they CALL what they are talking about. I still think that as an individual you should decide whether you BELIEVE if there is a deity or not. Reincremation is right, agnostics just arent making their mind or looking at themself hard enough to really know what they feel.

The fact that no one can truly KNOW the answer to this question is a given that all but the most brainwashed will see immediately, so basing an ideology on it is pointless. You still don't know the definition of an agnostic. Oh well.

[Lichtbringer]

The atheist claims to know, the agnostic doubts. That's the difference, to put it simple.
The common definition of a god to me is that of an omnipotent being, whose existence I deny. Therefore, I am atheist. The only "over-human" force I believe in is the force of nature.

[Decrepit Birtha]

The atheist claims to know, the agnostic doubts. That's the difference, to put it simple.
The common definition of a god to me is that of an omnipotent being, whose existence I deny. Therefore, I am atheist. The only "over-human" force I believe in is the force of nature. You not believing is as dumb as someone believing. We are not capable of comprehending things like this. :asleep:

[Decrepit Birtha]

The atheist claims to know, the agnostic doubts. That's the difference, to put it simple.

An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

There is a huge difference.

[scum]

this thread is fucking stupid

[Decrepit Birtha]

this thread is fucking stupid Because I think about things most people could care less about? I happen to find these type of things quite interesting. Sorry you think it's so stupid.

[Lichtbringer]

An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

There is a huge difference.

Uhm, I never said an agnostic denied the existence of god.

[Decrepit Birtha]

Uhm, I never said an agnostic denied the existence of god. So if an agnostic believes in god but thinks it's not possible to know for sure how is that person confused? Christians do not know for sure if god exists for sure, but they have faith that he does. All I am saying, is that you cannot say for sure if there is a god or not.

[Circastes]

It's all well and good to say agnosticism is the way to go, because it's just as unreasonable to say "God exists" as "God doesn't exist" -- but only if you're stuck in conception. If you think about it, the God/Saviour/Salvation/Afterlife hypothesis is simply a creation of your fears; names and concepts born out of your insecurities.

Also, think of how dumb it is to tell your brain there is a hidden enemy with infinite power around. Our brain is a derivative of primate brains, and you can imagine if a primate brain is instructed to think there is a hidden enemy it's going to fear and then reinforce its fear for protection. We're simulating a predator behind a tree when we think of God in the traditional way, and our brain reinforces it, so we get this runaway effect of fear and find we cannot deny that God exists.

You really have to save yourself from the stupid ass reigning ideas of reality, existence and our meaning, and see what starts to happen to you, before you truly understand the traditional idea of God is for faggot-gays.

[Lichtbringer]

And where did I say an agnostic is confused ?
I understand that I cannot know for 100% whether there is god or not and it has been discussed endlessely by philosophers and intellectuals all over the world. It's just that I strongly feel and am (almost) convinced there is none.

[Decrepit Birtha]

And where did I say an agnostic is confused ?
I understand that I cannot know for 100% whether there is god or not and it has been discussed endlessely by philosophers and intellectuals all over the world. It's just that I strongly feel and am (almost) convinced there is none. You can convince your mind of many things, but it doesn't make anything true or factual. The fact of the matter is that NO ONE knows what lies beyond. People may have opinions, but that's all they are. The point of the thread was to show that atheist are as dumb as religious people in the way they have brainwashed themselves to believe a certain thing. Ok, bed time, have to work in the morning.

[Lichtbringer]

They have cleansed themselves, not brainwashed.

[Circastes]

The problem is you fear what's "beyond". You want it to be something specific. Who gives a shit? Even if it's an endless loop of infinite pain, it's just another way to exist.

[DeathDealer]

bible gods do not exist...that is what an atheist believes & frankly we are right

[ElementGuitar]

Keep your personal beliefs to yourself. Don't push your shit on anyone else. Peace.

[m138jewski]

Slayer is god!

[Defleshuary]

hahaha, reading though all this all I wanted to type was SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYER! then I got to this post.

Anyway, Atheist, Dec. 2nd!!!

[Tomes of Deceit]

Because I think about things most people could care less about? I happen to find these type of things quite interesting. Sorry you think it's so stupid.

Pssh don't credit yourself too much their pal. You haven't provided any insights of your own, you just made a sweeping statement and then proceeded to give us the definition of agnostic. Wow, how thoughtful of you. If you were really thoughtful you could give your views on these issues. Saying your agnostic may be the official answer, but it's also just a cop out from having the real conversation. I don't care if you're agnostic, you must lean one way or the other. You must have a feeling in your gut whether god exists or not. You can acknowledge that you don't KNOW, big fucking deal, most people know they don't know. Have a fucking view of your own. What do you actually THINK? If you weren't afraid of being wrong you wouldn't have to hide behind the guise of agnosticism. Yeah i fucking know what it is, but being agnostic doesn't preclude you from having an opinion on the topic. If you don't have one, then you're a pussy and you need to do more thinking and less spouting off of definitions and bold sweeping statements.

You act like you're smart but i've never actually heard you say anything but shallow remarks and sarcasm. Have a fucking idea instead of knocking down other people's.

[Spew]

God is lol.

[Leopold Stotch]

There's as much reasons (that means none, at least today) to assume there is a 'god' as to believe in a giant, transcendental, pink hamster whose guts are of cotton candy and make up the paradise after death.

An absolute intelligence is a paradox itself. Creationwise there isn't even a god needed because no sane man regarding a unknown or yet inexplicable phenomenon would say 'Oh it's a wonder, it's God showing his might'. And why wouldn't any sane man say that? Because it's well-known that sometime it will be explained by science. Their is something 'higher' than us: A system, a power (pure energy for example), but it's not 'intelligent' or 'free minded' thus it is no god.
Agnostics only fear, as theists do, to accept that something is just there by chance.

And people experiencing 'god' only experience their inner self, what they call their spirituality, which is a good thing, but it is just their psyche/subconscious.
Putting it in your words: Saying there could be some absolute intelligence (god) is as dumb as actually believing in one.

[Circastes]

Man, I come up with some weird shit when I'm tripping on nail polish.

[Decrepit Birtha]

Man, I come up with some weird shit when I'm tripping on nail polish. If you are serious, please kill yourself now.

[Antæos]

God is axiomatic for both the believer, the atheist and the agnostic. A person raised above such things would, effectively, genuinely not care, therefore removing God's existence or lack thereof from the equation.

Atheism/agnosticism is virtually a matter of approval -- and nodody cares about that. Remember kids, no matter what you do whilst living, it'll make no difference in the end because you're going to die.

[Circastes]

If you are serious, please kill yourself now.

Nah man, I just injected some fish tank cleaner into my eyeball. Carpe diem.

[De Profoundis]

"ARE YOU READY TO OBEY THE COWGOD???????"

I think Green Jelly summed it up nicely there and then. End of thread, fuckers.

[cagedbychrist]

sweet topic. original?

[fireblaster666]

My beliefs are that there is a god, for many reasons.
But im not about to force that on anyone here.
I dont trust the bible cause it was written by man.
I trust only my faith in god and my faith in my self.
I know that there is a devil on this earth as well, but again thats only my belief.
If your the kind of guy that says oh yeah us humans we just magically popped out of nowhere, i pitty u, but i respect your beliefs.
Agnostics are people that dont undertsand and dont claim to know they understand the world and all of its magics.
In a way i am the same, but the only diffrence is I belieave there is a creator.
There have been many time in my life were i have looked at the situation im in and wonder how did i survive this? Then when i look at the earth, who created all this...I feel energy on this earth. Plants , water and the air....I just cant force my self to belieave that this perfect world that spins perfectly near a sun that gives us life was just here.
To deny god in my opinon is very foolish.
But again just my beliefs and opinons.....

[fireblaster666]

God is axiomatic for both the believer, the atheist and the agnostic. A person raised above such things would, effectively, genuinely not care, therefore removing God's existence or lack thereof from the equation.

Atheism/agnosticism is virtually a matter of approval -- and nodody cares about that. Remember kids, no matter what you do whilst living, it'll make no difference in the end because you're going to die.


Dude of course were gonna die, but dont you ever find your self being tested??????
Do u think we are going to die and thats just it???
I dont claim to know whats going to happen after death, nobody does.unless your dead.
But if life isnt the biggest test of em all, then this has got to be the biggest joke ever!!!
Dying is a part of life, it is out of our control. But the time we have the little time we have on this earth is a reflection to our future!!!

[Antæos]

Yep, we are all believers to some extent. Because there is the unhappy factor of complete uncertainty regarding "the afterlife", nothing can be claimed as truth. However, because I am a child of my time I find my position eloquently voiced by the great (and late) Jean-Paul Sartre:

"I find myself rather astonished at this life I have been given for nothing."

I draw my conclusion from what is considered fact today: I am a biological organism which expires at some point. Because I will expire, like anything else, nothing I do now has value. I cannot act out of goodwill or malice because it won't matter at some point. Posterity is meaningless in the end. All I *can* do is act to better my situation *now*, whatever that may imply; it is not necessarily a selfish drive.

What happens after I expire is not for me to say, so I'll hold my tongue and await the (un)ending.

[Circastes]

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4996/1158603293761sg1.jpg

Thread over.

[fireblaster666]

dude gross.

[fireblaster666]

Yep, we are all believers to some extent. Because there is the unhappy factor of complete uncertainty regarding "the afterlife", nothing can be claimed as truth. However, because I am a child of my time I find my position eloquently voiced by the great (and late) Jean-Paul Sartre:

"I find myself rather astonished at this life I have been given for nothing."

I draw my conclusion from what is considered fact today: I am a biological organism which expires at some point. Because I will expire, like anything else, nothing I do now has value. I cannot act out of goodwill or malice because it won't matter at some point. Posterity is meaningless in the end. All I *can* do is act to better my situation *now*, whatever that may imply; it is not necessarily a selfish drive.

What happens after I expire is not for me to say, so I'll hold my tongue and await the (un)ending.

biological oraganism ???
wow thats all you see people as??

[Tomes of Deceit]

biological oraganism ???
wow thats all you see people as??

People like you are fucking stupid. The fact that humans are biological organisms doesnt make life ANY less precious, it doesnt make it ANY less amazing that we exist. We didn't just "magically pop out of nowhere", in fact that image is MUCH closer to having some divine being create us out of his will! You feel energy on this world? Of course there's fucking energy, that's what the universe is. "perfect world that spins perfectly near a sun"? First of all, are you blind to all the blatant imperfections? I imagine you must be talking about the fact that this planet has the perfect conditions for human life to exist. Well consider this piece of LOGIC, if you can:

There are millions of stars in the universe, an unfathomable number, many of which are orbited by solar systems, some much bigger than our own. Of the thousands and thousands of planets, to our current knowledge there is ONE that contains any sort of intelligent life. There may be more, but to our knowledge there is ONE. Out of the multitude of planets and solar systems, it becomes an issue of pure probability that one of them must have the proper conditions to create intelligent life.

Think about it, if there is ONE optimal distance between a planet and a star in order for the planet to be the right temperature for life, in all of the universe there must be planets orbiting at ANY given distance from a star. Same argument goes for any conditions necessary for human life.

The key insight is THIS: If the conditions were not correct for human life to exist, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TO KNOW IT! The fact that we are here having this conversation means the conditions were correct. That's great, and i'm happy. But it's like the person who says they believe in god because they lived through some near death experience (this seems to be the person you are). USE SOME FUCKING LOGIC!! Thousands of people die every day, thousands of people DON'T live through these experiences, and those people aren't here to say that god doesn't exist because they died!

You probably aren't following any of this, but i'm not surprised because dumb fucks like you always need supernatural explanations to make up for the fact that they can't follow logical thought processes.

[Tomes of Deceit]

Basic scientific model with No god:

Somehow a universe exists that has always existed in some form (this is no harder to swallow than a god who has always existed, think about it, no difference.). Out of this a super, amazingly dense bit of matter explodes in a situation known as the big bang. Over millions of years matter cools significantly, solid matter forms, stars form, matter begins to revolve around stars. Speed forward and organic chemicals begin to form, life in the form of single celled organisms eventually forms. Go wayy past that and through many many conditions that i'm not getting into, intelligent life forms. An intelligence arises from inanimate matter that is able to ANALYZE it's environment, and actually discover(!!) through the scientific method, many of the events that lead up to its own creation!

This is the picture that science gives us, and its miraculous. Science doesn't remove wonder from human life, it promotes it. I pity you if you need to look to some all powerful being to face the fact that the universe and life in light of the great odds against us being here. Why give all the credit to some invisible man in the sky instead of giving it where it's due; to our wonderful universe itself?

[Tomes of Deceit]

Sorry for all the posts but I am REALLY bothered by the phrase, "Is that all you think we are, biological organisms?".

That's like saying "Is that all this machine does? Cook a delicious steak, print images in full color, wash your clothes for you, take out you garbage, connect to the internet, transport you to school, and anally stimulate you?"

We are biological organisms, but there's no "JUST" in there. The human body is infinitely more complex than the most advanced computer human beings have made. This biological organism is nothing short of amazing.

[fireblaster666]

People like you are fucking stupid. The fact that humans are biological organisms doesnt make life ANY less precious, it doesnt make it ANY less amazing that we exist. We didn't just "magically pop out of nowhere", in fact that image is MUCH closer to having some divine being create us out of his will! You feel energy on this world? Of course there's fucking energy, that's what the universe is. "perfect world that spins perfectly near a sun"? First of all, are you blind to all the blatant imperfections? I imagine you must be talking about the fact that this planet has the perfect conditions for human life to exist. Well consider this piece of LOGIC, if you can:

There are millions of stars in the universe, an unfathomable number, many of which are orbited by solar systems, some much bigger than our own. Of the thousands and thousands of planets, to our current knowledge there is ONE that contains any sort of intelligent life. There may be more, but to our knowledge there is ONE. Out of the multitude of planets and solar systems, it becomes an issue of pure probability that one of them must have the proper conditions to create intelligent life.



Think about it, if there is ONE optimal distance between a planet and a star in order for the planet to be the right temperature for life, in all of the universe there must be planets orbiting at ANY given distance from a star. Same argument goes for any conditions necessary for human life.

The key insight is THIS: If the conditions were not correct for human life to exist, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TO KNOW IT! The fact that we are here having this conversation means the conditions were correct. That's great, and i'm happy. But it's like the person who says they believe in god because they lived through some near death experience (this seems to be the person you are). USE SOME FUCKING LOGIC!! Thousands of people die every day, thousands of people DON'T live through these experiences, and those people aren't here to say that god doesn't exist because they died!

You probably aren't following any of this, but i'm not surprised because dumb fucks like you always need supernatural explanations to make up for the fact that they can't follow logical thought processes.


Just cause i have faith in a god im being persecuted???
With all u have said u still know little more then i do.
All we have is faith...and that is mine to have.
I dont call u a fucking idiot because of your ignorace.
i know people die , but thats just the way things happen.
I never said i know for a fact. i just said this is my belief...!!!
Dont claim to know who i am or put me in some category cause u dont know shit.
Science cant prove everything dumbass, and the fact that your so hateful of me and my beliefs, is just the kind of ignorance i try to avoid.
I use logic all the time, i know how the world works.
But still we are humans alone in this universe witch we cant explain.
Just cause i cant explain it doesnt mean i look for some supernatural being to save me.
I have faith in my god because i do.
Is that wrong???
who are u to tell me what i can bealieve and what i cant ???
people always talk shit online....always argue and cant seem to get along.
But its people like you who jump to conclusions with out knowing.
Its kind of like jumping off a bridge , and you really not sure if theres water under neath...
So keep being arrogant , i dont really care.
If u do believae in god or not it doesnt matter to me u know why???
cause its your life!!!!

[fireblaster666]

The universe doesnt just create it self!!!
its like witch came first the chicken or the egg..????
energy creates life , what creates energy???

[1by1]

lol @ god

no point on stressing over something like this. i totally agree with what tomes of deceit is saying.

*listening to Hypocrisy-'Impotent God'* :D

[fireblaster666]

Sorry for all the posts but I am REALLY bothered by the phrase, "Is that all you think we are, biological organisms?".

That's like saying "Is that all this machine does? Cook a delicious steak, print images in full color, wash your clothes for you, take out you garbage, connect to the internet, transport you to school, and anally stimulate you?"

We are biological organisms, but there's no "JUST" in there. The human body is infinitely more complex than the most advanced computer human beings have made. This biological organism is nothing short of amazing.

Not everyones gonna have the same opinons as u dude, but you dont have to be quick to judge, and call them names because your angry.
It just shows how immature you are.

[fireblaster666]

lol @ god

no point on stressing over something like this. i totally agree with what tomes of deceit is saying.

*listening to Hypocrisy-'Impotent God'* :D


agree , disagree doesnt matter to me.
its your opinon.

[1by1]

yup...its all opinion.
so whoever started this thread should shove his fuckin opinions up his fuckin ass.

[fireblaster666]

what ever u think or claim to know is irrelevant to me.
If you think im a dumb ass for having faith, that is your flaw.
It is good to question everything in life, thats why were here.
Its only human to wanna know the secrets of the universe.
But i am happy and content with my beliefs, and not you or any body will ever change that.
Because i know one thing for a fact ,science will only take you so far before u are lost in confusion.
But i am human , im living my life to the fullest, im a good person, and i respect other and there beliefs.
So argue all u want man .. but not to me. this is my last post in this thread.

[Antæos]

That's not the point. I think it's because you singled life in its splendour down to being worthless if there was no god. In light of the obvious magnificence of existence, you were justly flamed :p

[Vriend]

Because I think about things most people could care less about? I happen to find these type of things quite interesting. Sorry you think it's so stupid.

First of all, how do you come up with this subject to post it on the DB-forum?

Secondly, why is it foolish to be religious and atheist? I want to have good arguments.

Thirdly, if there is a god yes or no, it's up to yourself to decide what is YOUR truth.

*Something nice to think about:

If you believe in god, it is ok, prove god exists.

If you don't believe in god, it is ok, prove god doesn't exist. And I don't want to hear weak arguments like: "If god was alive, why is there war?" -->Aren't people responsible for the war?

[Tomes of Deceit]

The universe doesnt just create it self!!!
its like witch came first the chicken or the egg..????
energy creates life , what creates energy???

I don't know what creates energy. But god doesnt change that. What creates god? Religious people never seem to wonder what creates god, they just wonder what creates everything else. Why dont they ask what creates god? Because for many people, religion isnt a JOURNEY or a DISCOVERY, it's a fucking way to believe you have the answers and not even have to worry about trying to find them yourself. It's a way to think you have an absolute answer to issues or situations or motivations and it's bullshit. I will NOT believe in god again because religion tells you it has the answers. Fuck that kind of arrogance. Science doesnt even tell you it has the answers, it acknowledges the incredible breadth of what it doesnt know and goes from there to try to LEARN instead of presume.

Sorry if im bitter, but i was a christian until a couple years ago. All my life i was fucking brainwashed. Once i learned to think for myself, i realized that there was NO basis for all the things i used to believe!

The reason i get pissed is because religious people constantly defame and down play the universe and science. Science is amazing, it's incredible what humans have been able to figure out when you start looking into JUST HOW much we know about the world AS WE PERCEIVE IT. Then you've got fucking religious people contantly waging a war on science, scientific advancement, and knowledge in general...ALL THE WHILE BENEFITING FROM medecine, the internet, telephones, electricity, sanitation, etc etc! You know where those came from? I'll tell you one thing, they didn't come from fucking god.

[Tomes of Deceit]

That's not the point. I think it's because you singled life in its splendour down to being worthless if there was no god. In light of the obvious magnificence of existence, you were justly flamed :p

Thank you! You know what i'm on about. I think you said it a little more concisely. :emot-nod:

[Circastes]

Tomes of Deceit is right on the money. I apologise for suddenly mocking the thread. I just don't think people come onto the DB forum to read heavy philosophy, plus the argument is well and truly dead-end. I posted my refutation because I didn't want anyone buying into the bullshit the OP and Decrepit Birtha had to say.

Oh and Tomes of Deceit - may I suggest you get every seminar by Alan Watts you can get your hands on, assuming you haven't already? You'll find he's right on your level.

[fireblaster666]

just cause your ass was brainwashed doesnt give you the right to talk shit to people.
I honestly think science and the achievment of man is wonderful.
But u still have the wrong idea about me.
im not religous at all.
i dont go to church , i dont read the bible.
But i do beilive in a god.
I dont think life is worthless !!!!
i think its amazing, everything that we have is amazing.
everything tha people do is amazing.
but the fact is your an atheist and im not.
we are two of the same people with two diffrent beliefs!!!
maybe i should make this imb to IMB!!!!!!
you cant explain anything you have said so far, and i cant explain why i bealive in god.
but you feel as strong as i do about my beliefs..
get the point/??????

[Antæos]

Because I think about things most people could care less about? I happen to find these type of things quite interesting. Sorry you think it's so stupid.

Right. Most of the time you write inane shit about ANY faith, I don't think you're the one to talk, buddy. You're a moron who knows a lot about old school deathmetal, let's leave it at that.

[fireblaster666]

I don't know what creates energy. But god doesnt change that. What creates god? Religious people never seem to wonder what creates god, they just wonder what creates everything else. Why dont they ask what creates god? Because for many people, religion isnt a JOURNEY or a DISCOVERY, it's a fucking way to believe you have the answers and not even have to worry about trying to find them yourself. It's a way to think you have an absolute answer to issues or situations or motivations and it's bullshit. I will NOT believe in god again because religion tells you it has the answers. Fuck that kind of arrogance. Science doesnt even tell you it has the answers, it acknowledges the incredible breadth of what it doesnt know and goes from there to try to LEARN instead of presume.

Sorry if im bitter, but i was a christian until a couple years ago. All my life i was fucking brainwashed. Once i learned to think for myself, i realized that there was NO basis for all the things i used to believe!

The reason i get pissed is because religious people constantly defame and down play the universe and science. Science is amazing, it's incredible what humans have been able to figure out when you start looking into JUST HOW much we know about the world AS WE PERCEIVE IT. Then you've got fucking religious people contantly waging a war on science, scientific advancement, and knowledge in general...ALL THE WHILE BENEFITING FROM medecine, the internet, telephones, electricity, sanitation, etc etc! You know where those came from? I'll tell you one thing, they didn't come from fucking god.



were u molested by a priest???
is that why ur so angry at god???

[Kris]

I beileve in science!

[Kris]

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4996/1158603293761sg1.jpg
:emot-shak haha, this cracks me up

[fireblaster666]

The fact is nobody knows!!!!!!!
not u not me not alan watts!!!
nobody!!!
unless your dead can u tell me what is the truth!!!
so tomes please die already so u can tell me!!

[Circastes]

You make it sound like everyone is quaking for the same answers you are. But they're not, because they're not lost in conception like you are.

[fireblaster666]

You make it sound like everyone is quaking for the same answers you are. But they're not, because they're not lost in conception like you are.

how am i lost???
just stating that u dont know and more then i do.

[fireblaster666]

Its sad that people cant voice there opinons on here with out being judged!!
I didnt say you scientologist are full of shit, did i??

[Circastes]

One day an idea scares you, the next it's just a bunch of words, and a different idea scares you. The only thing that is constant is the fear. The whole problem is within you and not in imaginary concepts floating outside you.

[Kris]

theres scientologists that post here?

for the record (just so there are no discrepancies) when I said I beileve in science, I meant I beileve the world was created through scientific means (ie.big bang theory) but i dont follow scientology, just felt i should clear that up.

[fireblaster666]

One day an idea scares you, the next it's just a bunch of words, and a different idea scares you. The only thing that is constant is the fear. The whole problem is within you and not in imaginary concepts floating outside you.

oh really???
so u know me so well..??
nothing scares me. i was just defending my beliefs as u are.
U dont read very well.
i do respect all of your ideas and thoughs in this matter!!!!
i just dont feel the same.
In that note i should say for me speaking out and having something diffrent scares u!!!
im not a holy roller man.
i just bealieve in god.
whats wrong with that??

[Kris]

but i digress.

who gives a shit what a person beileves in? no point in arguing over it.

[fireblaster666]

exactly!!

[Circastes]

oh really???
so u know me so well..??
nothing scares me. i was just defending my beliefs as u are.
U dont read very well.
i do respect all of your ideas and thoughs in this matter!!!!
i just dont feel the same.
In that not i should say for me speaking out and having something diffrent scares u!!!
im not a holy roller man.
i just bealieve in god.
whats wrong with that??

I didn't mean "you" as in yourself, I was just describing the mindset of someone thinking too hard with the wrong assumptions in mind.

[Defleshuary]

You go to the church, you kiss the cross
You will be saved at any cost
You have your own reality
Christianity
You spend your life just kissing ass
A trait that's grown as time has passed
You think the world will end today
You praise the Lord, it's all you say

Jesus saves, listen to you pray
You think you'll see the pearly gates
When death takes you away

For all respect you cannot lust
In an invisible man you place your trust
Indirect dependency
Eternal attempt at amnesty
He will decide who lives and dies
Depopulate Satanas rise
You will be an accessory
Irreverence and blasphemy

Jesus saves, no need to pray
The gates of pearl have turned to gold
It seems you've lost your way

Jesus saves, no words of praise
No promised land to take you to
There is no other way

[fireblaster666]

whos jesus?

[fireblaster666]

theres scientologists that post here?

for the record (just so there are no discrepancies) when I said I beileve in science, I meant I beileve the world was created through scientific means (ie.big bang theory) but i dont follow scientology, just felt i should clear that up.



dude explian the big band theory to me!! :grenade:

[Kris]

haha, well wikipedia would explain it better!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory

actually heard on the news sometime back, through physics- they actually proved this to be the way the universe started. (not sure how true it is though)

I love this type of shit

[m138jewski]

this thread should have ended at Slayer

[fireblaster666]

agreed.

[fireblaster666]

this is a funny video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GHmv15H-VGk

[RICE510]

nah. it really isn't at all. agnostics = pussies. make up your mind.

BWAHAHAHHAA!!! - This guy thinks the topic is on par with choosing between a Cobb salad and a BLT at the local diner. More hilarity please.

How about this.... agnostics = people who know enough to realise that they are NOT all knowing.

I might as well decide the next guy I run into on the street is going to be named "Steve". I have no proof, I'm not there yet, he hasn't told me yet, but damn it all, I've made my fucking decision and that's final. (and if I don't decide before I actually meet him, I'm a pussy [:emot-ques ???]) He's going to be named muther fuckin Steve and that's it.... I can feel it in my heart, I can feel so much in my heart that his name will be Steve. his spirit came down from my local Starbucks in... in GLORIOUS Radiance!!!.. and told me his name, and that name.... will be 'STEVE'. HALALOOOYAH!!!! Praise SATAN!!

Making a concrete decision on a topic well outside the juristiction of our pea brains is pure ego. More chest puffing and strutting about. Small dick style.

[fireblaster666]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QkSja2gtq4o&mode=related&search=

[ChAAPY]

dude explian the big band theory to me!! :grenade:


they didn't teach you this at Judson High School?

[Reincremation]

BWAHAHAHHAA!!! - This guy thinks the topic is on par with choosing between a Cobb salad and a BLT at the local diner. More hilarity please.

How about this.... agnostics = people who know enough to realise that they are NOT all knowing.

I might as well decide the next guy I run into on the street is going to be named "Steve". I have no proof, I'm not there yet, he hasn't told me yet, but damn it all, I've made my fucking decision and that's final. (and if I don't decide before I actually meet him, I'm a pussy [:emot-ques ???]) He's going to be named muther fuckin Steve and that's it.... I can feel it in my heart, I can feel so much in my heart that his name will be Steve. his spirit came down from my local Starbucks in... in GLORIOUS Radiance!!!.. and told me his name, and that name.... will be 'STEVE'. HALALOOOYAH!!!! Praise SATAN!!

Making a concrete decision on a topic well outside the juristiction of our pea brains is pure ego. More chest puffing and strutting about. Small dick style.


i thought it was fairly obvious that my pithy remark was intended to be humorous...

[analredwing]

i believe john wayne movies are the gateway too the stars

[Decrepit Birtha]

First of all, how do you come up with this subject to post it on the DB-forum?

Secondly, why is it foolish to be religious and atheist? I want to have good arguments.

Thirdly, if there is a god yes or no, it's up to yourself to decide what is YOUR truth.

*Something nice to think about:

If you believe in god, it is ok, prove god exists.

If you don't believe in god, it is ok, prove god doesn't exist. And I don't want to hear weak arguments like: "If god was alive, why is there war?" -->Aren't people responsible for the war? wow, you missed the whole point.

[Vriend]

Only the first 2 points are towards you, not the rest

[Decrepit Birtha]

Only the first 2 points are towards you, not the rest It's simple to understand, religious folks and atheists are dedicated to 2 beliefs they have no way of proving. That's all I was trying to get across. Radical christians and atheist can both be annoying when try to prove their bullshit theories. Yeah, I am annoying to, but that's life. :D

[Spew]

Yep, we are all believers to some extent. Because there is the unhappy factor of complete uncertainty regarding "the afterlife", nothing can be claimed as truth. However, because I am a child of my time I find my position eloquently voiced by the great (and late) Jean-Paul Sartre:

"I find myself rather astonished at this life I have been given for nothing."

I draw my conclusion from what is considered fact today: I am a biological organism which expires at some point. Because I will expire, like anything else, nothing I do now has value. I cannot act out of goodwill or malice because it won't matter at some point. Posterity is meaningless in the end. All I *can* do is act to better my situation *now*, whatever that may imply; it is not necessarily a selfish drive.

What happens after I expire is not for me to say, so I'll hold my tongue and await the (un)ending.

How very nihilist of you.

:lo:

[Tomes of Deceit]

theres scientologists that post here?

for the record (just so there are no discrepancies) when I said I beileve in science, I meant I beileve the world was created through scientific means (ie.big bang theory) but i dont follow scientology, just felt i should clear that up.

hahaha. Scientology has NOTHING to do with science. I really hope that no one is getting the two confused.

Scientology is the biggest bullshit ever and IMO it is a slap in the face to the rational community who like to start with empirical evidence, that this and christian science both take the word science and corrupt it. :2gunsfiri

[Tomes of Deceit]

dude explian the big band theory to me!! :grenade:

In a nutshell, since science has determined that the universe is expanding, the theory is that all the matter in the universe began compressed in an infinitely small nugget, and then exploded in what is known as the big bang, and this explosion sent debris everywhere and started the universe in its expansion that still continues billions of years later.

There is evidence for it, as it's a pretty well accepted theory, but certainly can't be proven. And it doesn't really answer any questions, because what does it mean for all matter to be compressed in one spot? What is OUTSIDE that spot? If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? How can something be infinite and simultaneously expand? How did the matter get so compressed? Where did it come from before that? Will it eventually collapse back in on itself, that is to say, is that whole thing a cycle on an incredibly long time scale?

On the question of origins we are still pretty much lost, and probably always will be. To me though, the notion of god does not answer any questions, it merely adds another layer of inexplicable theorizing to the equation.

[m138jewski]

nah, mormons are the worst.

[fireblaster666]

In a nutshell, since science has determined that the universe is expanding, the theory is that all the matter in the universe began compressed in an infinitely small nugget, and then exploded in what is known as the big bang, and this explosion sent debris everywhere and started the universe in its expansion that still continues billions of years later.

There is evidence for it, as it's a pretty well accepted theory, but certainly can't be proven. And it doesn't really answer any questions, because what does it mean for all matter to be compressed in one spot? What is OUTSIDE that spot? If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? How can something be infinite and simultaneously expand? How did the matter get so compressed? Where did it come from before that? Will it eventually collapse back in on itself, that is to say, is that whole thing a cycle on an incredibly long time scale?

On the question of origins we are still pretty much lost, and probably always will be. To me though, the notion of god does not answer any questions, it merely adds another layer of inexplicable theorizing to the equation.




wow.
thats hard to take in.

[Decrepit Birtha]

My brain hurts.

[Miscreant]

Keep your personal beliefs to yourself. Don't push your shit on anyone else. Peace.

I concur. I thought this was going to be a good discussion, but turns out it's a dispute with "Mr. Open-mindedness", Abberation.

[Decrepit Birtha]

I concur. I thought this was going to be a good discussion, but turns out it's a dispute with "Mr. Open-mindedness", Abberation. I'm not doing anything but stating facts. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT LIES BEYOND. That is a FACT. Simple huh? If you tell me otherwise then my name is He-Man and I am the master of the universe.

[Miscreant]

I'm not doing anything but stating facts. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT LIES BEYOND. That is a FACT. Simple huh? If you tell me otherwise then my name is He-Man and I am the master of the universe.

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" - William S. Burroughs

I love that quote.

[Decrepit Birtha]

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" - William S. Burroughs

I love that quote. Oh lord, I am about to join the 50 cent messageboard.

[Miscreant]

Oh lord, I am about to join the 50 cent messageboard.

I need to get my tires rotated next time I go into town.

[Decrepit Birtha]

I need to get my tires rotated next time I go into town. Be sure to get them balanced as well, I just had mine done a few weeks ago.

[BZM]

Keep your personal beliefs to yourself. Don't push your shit on anyone else. Peace.

[De Profoundis]

THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS THREAD:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4996/1158603293761sg1.jpg
-DOG-GIRL OBTAINS THE BANANA IN THE MIDST OF THE GIANT ANUS.
-DOG-GIRL HAPPILY EATS BANANA WITH SCARY PHOTO EYES.

[Circastes]

-DOG-GIRL WILL BE OUR NEW GOD

[Antæos]

How very nihilist of you.

:lo:

Actually, it's not. I don't spend my time looking forward to some Great Beyond, so I create situations in the present. That is the opposite of Nihilism. :P

[ten_second_infinity]

Atheism/agnosticism is virtually a matter of approval -- and nodody cares about that. Remember kids, no matter what you do whilst living, it'll make no difference in the end because you're going to die.

TRUTH.
Antæos FTW.

[ten_second_infinity]

My brain hurts.

Figures.. don't think too hard.

[fireblaster666]

Again we are all going to die one day, maybe in 5 minutes maybe in 5 years.
Thats why we should live life to the fullest, because today could be are very last.
Fuck religion, fuck finding answers, just live a good life!!!!

[ten_second_infinity]

Fuck religion, fuck finding answers, just live a good life!!!!

Weren't you arguing earlier because you believe in God?

[fireblaster666]

Weren't you arguing earlier because you believe in God?


arguing nah.. just defending my beliefs.
if everybody said your dad didnt exist you would get mad cause u know in your heart he does right???
well...i hate religon !!!!
and i hate truth seekers!!
now lets drop all this!!
i wish this thread could be thrown out!

[Vriend]

My brain hurts.

lol

[ten_second_infinity]

arguing nah.. just defending my beliefs.
if everybody said your dad didnt exist you would get mad cause u know in your heart he does right???
well...i hate religon !!!!
and i hate truth seekers!!
now lets drop all this!!
i wish this thread could be thrown out!


You hate religion but you believe in God?
Isn't that kind of contradictory?

[RICE510]

i thought it was fairly obvious that my pithy remark was intended to be humorous...

I would not have assumed sarcasm because there are simple too many people who actually DO share the mindset you were appearantly making fun of.

It's all good.

[Lichtbringer]

You hate religion but you believe in God?
Isn't that kind of contradictory?

No.

[ChAAPY]

You hate religion but you believe in God?
Isn't that kind of contradictory?


he never said he believed in the "christian" God, just God (which could be anything or anyone to whoever)

[Antæos]

I'll quote Feuerbach on this...

"Thus God is nothing else than man: he is, so to speak, the outward projection of man's inward nature."

[fireblaster666]

explain that cause im kinda dumb.

[Antæos]

It's in relation to the 'different Gods' topic. There is the scripture God, the one featured in all those organized religions (they're all basically the same...), and then there's your god, the omniscient creator mysteriously veiled in time and space and well outside the boundaries of human comprehension.

Feuerbach speaks about the overall principle of God. God has assumed many different faces throughout the times, and to make a long story (with lots of fucking insane passages) short, Feuerbach feels that God's "appearence" takes on the nature of the humans observing him. Mankind created the Creator in its own imaginary, absolute image.

[fireblaster666]

wow.......thats deep .hahah

[Shawn]

TRUTH!
QFT

[De Profoundis]

-DOG-GIRL WILL BE OUR NEW GOD

MOTE IT BE.

[Johann]

In a nutshell, since science has determined that the universe is expanding, the theory is that all the matter in the universe began compressed in an infinitely small nugget, and then exploded in what is known as the big bang, and this explosion sent debris everywhere and started the universe in its expansion that still continues billions of years later.

There is evidence for it, as it's a pretty well accepted theory, but certainly can't be proven. And it doesn't really answer any questions, because what does it mean for all matter to be compressed in one spot? What is OUTSIDE that spot? If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? How can something be infinite and simultaneously expand? How did the matter get so compressed? Where did it come from before that? Will it eventually collapse back in on itself, that is to say, is that whole thing a cycle on an incredibly long time scale?

On the question of origins we are still pretty much lost, and probably always will be. To me though, the notion of god does not answer any questions, it merely adds another layer of inexplicable theorizing to the equation.

did you read anything on the string theory? about the layered dimensions colliding and generating a (the) big bang, and then moving away from each other to move towards each other again [to, in an undetermined amount of future, collide again and thus generating another big bang]?

[Shawn]

string theory is only able to be understood at 7:00AM after a long night of drinking, staring into the fire with your buddies, theorizing about life.

[Cannibalistic_Horror]

I thought that the String Theory was disproved when there was some sort of evidence appearing of an eleventh dimension, which then caused for the M Theory to be formed. Or something like that. I read about it a long time ago and cannot remember everything from the book.

[Antæos]

I'd love to know how the calculate all this stuff. It's so abstract that I have a hard time fathoming it, let alone how the fuck they thought of it in the first place :P

Like, I've seen figures of how *big* the other dimensions are, what they weigh, or something along those lines. How on earth?!

[Cannibalistic_Horror]

In a nutshell, since science has determined that the universe is expanding, the theory is that all the matter in the universe began compressed in an infinitely small nugget, and then exploded in what is known as the big bang, and this explosion sent debris everywhere and started the universe in its expansion that still continues billions of years later.

There is evidence for it, as it's a pretty well accepted theory, but certainly can't be proven. And it doesn't really answer any questions, because what does it mean for all matter to be compressed in one spot? What is OUTSIDE that spot? If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? How can something be infinite and simultaneously expand? How did the matter get so compressed? Where did it come from before that? Will it eventually collapse back in on itself, that is to say, is that whole thing a cycle on an incredibly long time scale?

On the question of origins we are still pretty much lost, and probably always will be. To me though, the notion of god does not answer any questions, it merely adds another layer of inexplicable theorizing to the equation.
With the matter that came created the big bang, it could be that it was like a nuclear bomb going off in the sense that a chain reaction started when a neutron was sent on a collision course with an atom similar to Uranium 235. This would then cause for the atom to become unstable and so split, releasing energy and two more neutrons which carry on the chain reaction until shit loads of energy has been released. Soon after the energy could "condense" into matter. And it could be that this all occured inside a universe similar to ours, which is now expanding as ours expands.

[Cannibalistic_Horror]

I'd love to know how the calculate all this stuff. It's so abstract that I have a hard time fathoming it, let alone how the fuck they thought of it in the first place :P

Like, I've seen figures of how *big* the other dimensions are, what they weigh, or something along those lines. How on earth?!
Well, the are fucking geniuses. What I find more remarkable is that around 350 or so years ago Isaac Newton was able to work out the weight of the sun. Now that is really remarkable considering that he does not have the fancy technology we do today.

[Antæos]

I wish I could be good at science. But alas. It interests me a fuckload, I'm always looking up science litterature and so on, but I can't join in on those types of things on the technical level. Sucks ass :( I'm destined to be unemployed

[Spew]

This thread rawks.

[Cannibalistic_Horror]

This thread rawks.
Would rawk even more if there were crows. :(

[Spew]

Hahaha!

[Miscreant]

If you guys want something to consider philosophically, check out Robert Anton Wilson's DVD called Maybe Logic (http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Anton-Wilson-Maybe-Logic/dp/B000EU1HQM/sr=8-1/qid=1159085632/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8313190-6325752?ie=UTF8&s=dvd). It'll make you really think about...everything.

[Circastes]

Didn't know he'd made a movie.

[Miscreant]

Didn't know he'd made a movie.

It's a collection really of different seminars and interviews and stuff, really thought provoking.

[Circastes]

It's a collection really of different seminars and interviews and stuff, really thought provoking.

Cool, I will check it out. I've been putting off reading all his stuff because I'm a lazy cunt. Only read Quantum Psychology.

[Surt]

Our world is fast succumbing to the activities of men and women who would stake the future of our species on beliefs that should not survive a primary school education.

That so many of us are still dying on account of ancient myths is as bewildering as it is horrible, and our own attachment to these myths, whether moderate or extreme, has kept us silent in the face of developments that could ultimately destroy us.

Indeed religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it was at any time in the past.
The recent conflicts in Palestine (Jews v Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v Bosnian and Albanian Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants v Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims v Hindus), Sudan (Muslims v Christians and animists), Nigeria (Muslims v Christians), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims Timorese Christians), and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v Catholic and Orthodox Armenians) are merely a few cases in point.

In these places religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in the last ten years. These events should strike us like psychological experiments run amok, for that is what they are.
Give people divergent, irreconcilable, and untestable notions about what happens after death, and oblige them to live together with limited resources.
The result is just what we see; an unending cycle of murder and cease-fire. If history reveals any categorical truth, it is that an insufficient taste for evidence regularly brings out the worst in us. Add weapons of mass destruction to this diabolical clockwork, and you have found a recipe for the fall of civilization.

Mothers were skewered on swords as their children watched. Young women were stripped and raped in broad daylight, then... set on fire.
A pregnant woman's belly was slit open, her foetus raised skyward on the tip of a sword and then tossed into one of the fires that blazed across the city.

This is not an account of the Middle Ages, nor is it a tale from Middle Earth. This is our world.
The cause of this behaviour was not economic, it was not racial, and it was not political. The above passage describes the violence that erupted between Hindus and Muslims in India in the winter of 2002. The only difference between these groups lies in what they believe about God.

Those points above epitomise one of the main reasons why i am not embarrassed to regard myself as an atheist. It shows the clarity of opinion and decision to be able to distance yourself from the mental delusions of human grandeur created by spiritualist religion.

[Decrepit Birtha]

Damn, I didn't think this thread was gonna go on for this long.

[Tomes of Deceit]

Our world is fast succumbing to the activities of men and women who would stake the future of our species on beliefs that should not survive a primary school education.

That so many of us are still dying on account of ancient myths is as bewildering as it is horrible, and our own attachment to these myths, whether moderate or extreme, has kept us silent in the face of developments that could ultimately destroy us.

Indeed religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it was at any time in the past.
The recent conflicts in Palestine (Jews v Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v Bosnian and Albanian Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants v Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims v Hindus), Sudan (Muslims v Christians and animists), Nigeria (Muslims v Christians), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims Timorese Christians), and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v Catholic and Orthodox Armenians) are merely a few cases in point.

In these places religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in the last ten years. These events should strike us like psychological experiments run amok, for that is what they are.
Give people divergent, irreconcilable, and untestable notions about what happens after death, and oblige them to live together with limited resources.
The result is just what we see; an unending cycle of murder and cease-fire. If history reveals any categorical truth, it is that an insufficient taste for evidence regularly brings out the worst in us. Add weapons of mass destruction to this diabolical clockwork, and you have found a recipe for the fall of civilization.

Mothers were skewered on swords as their children watched. Young women were stripped and raped in broad daylight, then... set on fire.
A pregnant woman's belly was slit open, her foetus raised skyward on the tip of a sword and then tossed into one of the fires that blazed across the city.

This is not an account of the Middle Ages, nor is it a tale from Middle Earth. This is our world.
The cause of this behaviour was not economic, it was not racial, and it was not political. The above passage describes the violence that erupted between Hindus and Muslims in India in the winter of 2002. The only difference between these groups lies in what they believe about God.

Those points above epitomise one of the main reasons why i am not embarrassed to regard myself as an atheist. It shows the clarity of opinion and decision to be able to distance yourself from the mental delusions of human grandeur created by spiritualist religion.

Good post.

[Cannibalistic_Horror]

Our world is fast succumbing to the activities of men and women who would stake the future of our species on beliefs that should not survive a primary school education.

That so many of us are still dying on account of ancient myths is as bewildering as it is horrible, and our own attachment to these myths, whether moderate or extreme, has kept us silent in the face of developments that could ultimately destroy us.

Indeed religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it was at any time in the past.
The recent conflicts in Palestine (Jews v Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v Bosnian and Albanian Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants v Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims v Hindus), Sudan (Muslims v Christians and animists), Nigeria (Muslims v Christians), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v Christians), Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v Tamil Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims Timorese Christians), and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v Catholic and Orthodox Armenians) are merely a few cases in point.

In these places religion has been the explicit cause of literally millions of deaths in the last ten years. These events should strike us like psychological experiments run amok, for that is what they are.
Give people divergent, irreconcilable, and untestable notions about what happens after death, and oblige them to live together with limited resources.
The result is just what we see; an unending cycle of murder and cease-fire. If history reveals any categorical truth, it is that an insufficient taste for evidence regularly brings out the worst in us. Add weapons of mass destruction to this diabolical clockwork, and you have found a recipe for the fall of civilization.

Mothers were skewered on swords as their children watched. Young women were stripped and raped in broad daylight, then... set on fire.
A pregnant woman's belly was slit open, her foetus raised skyward on the tip of a sword and then tossed into one of the fires that blazed across the city.

This is not an account of the Middle Ages, nor is it a tale from Middle Earth. This is our world.
The cause of this behaviour was not economic, it was not racial, and it was not political. The above passage describes the violence that erupted between Hindus and Muslims in India in the winter of 2002. The only difference between these groups lies in what they believe about God.

Those points above epitomise one of the main reasons why i am not embarrassed to regard myself as an atheist. It shows the clarity of opinion and decision to be able to distance yourself from the mental delusions of human grandeur created by spiritualist religion.
When you make an argument, you sure do make an argument. I can't question any of that.

[Spew]

Actually you could if you were passionate about religion.

Ultimately, religion and science both cancel each other out.

None will be proven to be superior over the other.

Fact.