Help! I've lost the ability to play guitar!

[Sinned]

Ok... for I don't know how long know I've gone through a living hell... at first I was stuck at the same phase of my playing, never being able to take it to another level. And now, it feels like I've lost it all. My shredding is horrible, I can't do 16th's for shit. I'm unbelievable untight and find it extremly hard to play even the most simpliest songs.

Someone with experience, like you DB guys, tell me how to proceed. I'm sure some of you guys have gone through these blocks of bad playing.

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by Sinned
Ok... for I don't know how long know I've gone through a living hell... at first I was stuck at the same phase of my playing, never being able to take it to another level. And now, it feels like I've lost it all. My shredding is horrible, I can't do 16th's for shit. I'm unbelievable untight and find it extremly hard to play even the most simpliest songs.

Someone with experience, like you DB guys, tell me how to proceed. I'm sure some of you guys have gone through these blocks of bad playing.

humm... I have some ideas on this, I gotta go for now, but I will come back with some advice.

[ChaosDeathkult]

What exactly are you having problems with? playing in general? trem picking? sloppy playing? or is it more along the lines of motivation? be specific.

[Sinned]

Originally posted by ChaosDeathkult
What exactly are you having problems with? playing in general? trem picking? sloppy playing? or is it more along the lines of motivation? be specific.

It's kind of a general problem but I'll give you some pointers:

*Trempicking... It fells like I'm in some sort of uncontrolled way just move the wrist up and down. And at high speeds when changning string I keep doing minor annoying misstakes.

*Keeping rhytm mostly at slowspeed riffs. An example would be At the gates - Slaughter of the soul (the opening riff). There's just no way in hell that I play it with such potential and controll, I need considerably more speed to play it half as good.

*one-way strokes... I'll take another example... Metallica - Master of puppets (opening riff). Now this is a riff that you normally wouldn't play in one-way strokes but I couldn't come up with a better example. Now, I'm no way near to pull this one off using only downstrokes, I can manage for like one fourth then I'm done for it.

[sermon]

remmen and sotelo would have authority on answering this.

[ChaosDeathkult]

And I don't? :o

[RICE510]

I feel your pain sinned... But in my case the blame is squarely on my shoulders for simply not playing hardly any guitar at all these days.

... are you equally guilty?

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by Sinned
It's kind of a general problem but I'll give you some pointers:

*Trempicking... It fells like I'm in some sort of uncontrolled way just move the wrist up and down. And at high speeds when changning string I keep doing minor annoying misstakes.

*Keeping rhytm mostly at slowspeed riffs. An example would be At the gates - Slaughter of the soul (the opening riff). There's just no way in hell that I play it with such potential and controll, I need considerably more speed to play it half as good.

*one-way strokes... I'll take another example... Metallica - Master of puppets (opening riff). Now this is a riff that you normally wouldn't play in one-way strokes but I couldn't come up with a better example. Now, I'm no way near to pull this one off using only downstrokes, I can manage for like one fourth then I'm done for it.

Sounds like a lot of your problems lay in tempo and timing. I'll tell you one thing that improved my timing greatly... a metronome! I would start at an easy tempo something like 180 b.p.m. and do an 8 count of 1/4 notes then jump up to 1/8th notes and finally 16th notes(DON'T FORGET YOUR TRIPLET TIMINGS TOO!). Then I would move the meter up in increments of 10 b.p.m. until you reach your max. If you really want to work on your 16ths (trempicking) and getting your speed and definition up, spend more time playing 16th notes to the metronome, go for like 8 minutes without stopping at a faster tempo like 240 bpm and up, it doesn't matter if you are only picking the same note or pattern over and over, just be sure your intervals are lining up. Downstroke picking at 8th notes is a very tough one because consider this, you are picking down on your strings and having to use the extra energy to lift your pick back up and reapply force into the stroke for the next downward motion. Its not a very efficient technique, however the percussive sound that is the result is much more powerful than alternate picking 8th notes. Personally I rarely downstroke single notes in 1/8th timing when the tempo is anything over 220bpm or so, but I always try to downstroke 1/8th note chords when playing at higher tempos, it is so fucking aggressive. I look up to a guy like Doug Cerrito who was a master at this. One trick is to NOT tense up, and remember to breath. I'll make one last suggestion, okay this is a bit off the wall, but if you check out Derek Roddy's (from Hate Eternal) drum instructional video you will see that he has a lot of good ethics on practicing. Eventhough its a drum video, you can use a lot of the things he says and apply them to guitar or any instrument for that matter. I hope I could be of help, I am no guitar teacher, but I like to help people when they need it. It would be really cool if someone came out with a death metal instructional video for guitar. The guitar player from Necrophagist should seriously consider doing something like that, he is such an amazing musician.

[Sinned]

Originally posted by RICE510
I feel your pain sinned... But in my case the blame is squarely on my shoulders for simply not playing hardly any guitar at all these days.

... are you equally guilty?

hell no! I've been playing more than ever--- I've heard that playing too much can also be a great deal of problem but yet I continue to hear that I simply need some more practice.

[Sinned]

Originally posted by shroudofimpurity
Sounds like a lot of your problems lay in tempo and timing. I'll tell you one thing that improved my timing greatly... a metronome! I would start at an easy tempo something like 180 b.p.m. and do an 8 count of 1/4 notes then jump up to 1/8th notes and finally 16th notes(DON'T FORGET YOUR TRIPLET TIMINGS TOO!). Then I would move the meter up in increments of 10 b.p.m. until you reach your max. If you really want to work on your 16ths (trempicking) and getting your speed and definition up, spend more time playing 16th notes to the metronome, go for like 8 minutes without stopping at a faster tempo like 240 bpm and up, it doesn't matter if you are only picking the same note or pattern over and over, just be sure your intervals are lining up. Downstroke picking at 8th notes is a very tough one because consider this, you are picking down on your strings and having to use the extra energy to lift your pick back up and reapply force into the stroke for the next downward motion. Its not a very efficient technique, however the percussive sound that is the result is much more powerful than alternate picking 8th notes. Personally I rarely downstroke single notes in 1/8th timing when the tempo is anything over 220bpm or so, but I always try to downstroke 1/8th note chords when playing at higher tempos, it is so fucking aggressive. I look up to a guy like Doug Cerrito who was a master at this. One trick is to NOT tense up, and remember to breath. I'll make one last suggestion, okay this is a bit off the wall, but if you check out Derek Roddy's (from Hate Eternal) drum instructional video you will see that he has a lot of good ethics on practicing. Eventhough its a drum video, you can use a lot of the things he says and apply them to guitar or any instrument for that matter. I hope I could be of help, I am no guitar teacher, but I like to help people when they need it. It would be really cool if someone came out with a death metal instructional video for guitar. The guitar player from Necrophagist should seriously consider doing something like that, he is such an amazing musician.

Hey thanks for all the advices, I'll start the practice immediately.
Yeah and I've seen the instruction-video before (sick btw), I'll do some of that too just to be sure.

Say how long have you played guitar shroud? I'm really egger to know how many years it takes to become such a wicked guitarist. Any professional studies etc?

[RICE510]

You know, this actually sounds very typical...

I remember having really hot picking (years ago) in my first year of playing and a friend, an absolute shredder, just as good as that guy from Necrophagist, (no shit) mentioned to me, how there's always this phase... when you loose all your picking ability and almost have to start from scratch....

well it happened to me... But my "episode" wasn't really dramatic, and it helped that I was playing like a sonuvabitch back then, so I got over it after about a month or two.

Keep playing, pick some practices from wiz' you like... and patience... like with almost any challenge, you'll get through it with perserverance.

[ChaosDeathkult]

Originally posted by shroudofimpurity
It would be really cool if someone came out with a death metal instructional video for guitar. The guitar player from Necrophagist should seriously consider doing something like that, he is such an amazing musician.

Or Trey Azagthoth, when he did that ten minute guitar solo at the House of Blues in Anaheim I just wanted to give up guitar, lol.

[Sinned]

Originally posted by ChaosDeathkult
Or Trey Azagthoth, when he did that ten minute guitar solo at the House of Blues in Anaheim I just wanted to give up guitar, lol.

Haha yeah! That feeling is too familiar... comparing your own skills to others is a bitch!

[ChaosDeathkult]

Dude seriously, I was just laughin with my friends havin a good time, then I hear all this screaching and noise going on, and Trey was just having sex with his whammy bar, which started the whole ten minute solo, I turned around and my jaw dropped and I didn't move a muscle for ten minutes.........really motivates you hah? haha.

[INCINERATION]

Originally posted by ChaosDeathkult
Or Trey Azagthoth, when he did that ten minute guitar solo at the House of Blues in Anaheim I just wanted to give up guitar, lol.

i was there to man. that shit ruled!

[ChaosDeathkult]

Yeah dude totally. How cool was it? ah man. I was backstage and saw some weird things that Trey did to his setup to achieve the sounds he has.

[Depth of Misery]

I'm just getting back into playing after about a 5 year lapse and I tell you I couldn't play an AC/DC song right now. I totally lost the feel for guitar and I hope I can get back at it and get better than I ever was before. The thing I tried to do to improve was downloading different types of tablature and playing a variety of songs that were all quite different. My trouble was always fast picking and changing strings, I'd always get jumbled up and hit all the other strings I shouldn't have been playing.

I'd say Trey is a good guitar player, no doubt about it but I absolutely can't take his style. After reading an article where he said half the guitarist in Death Metal sucked (including Chuck from Death!??) I got tired of hearing him play. To me all that whammy noise is annoying and I laughed through the whole album (Formulas Fatal to the Flesh) when Eric Rutan showed SO much more style and creativity than he did.

My 2 cents.

By the way I'm new here! Cheers Metal Brothers!!

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by Sinned
Hey thanks for all the advices, I'll start the practice immediately.
Yeah and I've seen the instruction-video before (sick btw), I'll do some of that too just to be sure.

Say how long have you played guitar shroud? I'm really egger to know how many years it takes to become such a wicked guitarist. Any professional studies etc?

Ive been playing for 14 years, I have only had about 1 year of real guitar lessons. However to me everytime I listen to a good album or go to a live show that becomes a lesson for me. I am always observing, no matter what kind of music it is. I have a lot to learn as a musician, which makes this fun for me, and that is the only point to music, make it enjoyable. Good luck Sinned, keep us posted with your progress.

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by Depth of Misery
I'm just getting back into playing after about a 5 year lapse and I tell you I couldn't play an AC/DC song right now. I totally lost the feel for guitar and I hope I can get back at it and get better than I ever was before. The thing I tried to do to improve was downloading different types of tablature and playing a variety of songs that were all quite different. My trouble was always fast picking and changing strings, I'd always get jumbled up and hit all the other strings I shouldn't have been playing.

I'd say Trey is a good guitar player, no doubt about it but I absolutely can't take his style. After reading an article where he said half the guitarist in Death Metal sucked (including Chuck from Death!??) I got tired of hearing him play. To me all that whammy noise is annoying and I laughed through the whole album (Formulas Fatal to the Flesh) when Eric Rutan showed SO much more style and creativity than he did.

My 2 cents.

By the way I'm new here! Cheers Metal Brothers!!

welcome bro!

[ChaosDeathkult]

Originally posted by Depth of Misery
I'd say Trey is a good guitar player, no doubt about it but I absolutely can't take his style. After reading an article where he said half the guitarist in Death Metal sucked (including Chuck from Death!??)

By the way I'm new here! Cheers Metal Brothers!!

He didn't say that in those exact words bro, and Death isn't even death metal foolzo! Trey just has a slight ego that masks him, I remember when I asked him who his favorite guitarist was back when I seen them on the Extreme Steel tour, he said he really looked up to Dimebag Darrell at the time, don't know who it is now though. But there are a lot of death metal guitarists that don't stand out, why do you think every death metal band does drum solos? because the drummer is really the only outstanding musician in the band. It doesn't take a whole hell of a lot of effort to play standard death metal. Atleast for me anyway, anyone can play Cannibal Corpse or Incantation I think.
My point, Trey was trying to make a point saying that there aren't many original, or outstanding/flashy guitarists in death metal, which is true I think. And I love his playing, he creates some of the most oddball and evil shit. Very talented.

[RICE510]

"Death isn't even death metal"

disgusting.

*shakes head, writhing with contact embarrassment*

[shroudofimpurity]

Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that Death is death metal, I mean just listen to an album like "Human" how can one say its not? Maybe its the generation gap, younger people dont remember the old days, so maybe things are different. I remember back in '91 when Human was new, and I thought it was so fast, and heavy. Just because they didnt have blast beats, dosent mean theyre not death metal. I think Chuck, who is my favorite death metal guitarist next to Doug Cerrito, is one of the "founding fathers" of the death metal genre.

[Depth of Misery]

I agree Shroud, before I discovered Death I was into stuff like Kreator and Sepultura(discovered them because of MTV), Death stood out from those guys by far cause Chuck and his voice and guitar style was so damn evil especially on Spiritual Healing. I thought it was the sickest thing I'd ever heard. I'll always believe that Death were one if not THE founding fathers of the Death Metal genre cause back in the early 80's there was NOTHING out there like Scream Bloody Gore or Leprosy.

I think NOT having blast beats was what made them great, them and Obituary too. I mean Obituary is as Death Metal as it gets and they had no blast beats either. I think what throws the younger group off (I'm 30) is the fact that after each album Chuck's voice got higher and higher (probably due to his health) and it came out sounding more like black/speed metal, but DEATH METAL they were!! Blast beats don't define Death Metal, it's a combination of things, and not every style has blast beats. By God I talk to people in my town and they think Slipknot is death metal!!?? It's POP music man!

[ChaosDeathkult]

In my eyes and ears it always sounded like Death and even Obituary were more thrash than death metal. And I grew up on Obituary. They just don't seem all that death metal to me.
Don't get me wrong, just because I don't consider them death metal doesn't mean I have something against them. I love Death and SOP is my favorite album, and Obituary, I love everything from them and I'm glad they got back together recently with all original members and are going to release an album and tour. But sorry, they don't seem death metal to me. Go ahead and *shake your head*, it's what I think.

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by ChaosDeathkult
In my eyes and ears it always sounded like Death and even Obituary were more thrash than death metal.

To me thrash is more like Anthrax, Exodus, Testament, Vio-lence, Forbidden, OverKill, Megadeth(old), Metallica(old) even Sepultura. But I think if you got in to death metal in the late 80's early 90's, then you might consider bands like Death and Obituary death metal. Just an opinion though...

[ChaosDeathkult]

Oh indeed, I agree with you. I started getting into death metal in 1996, no doubt if it was back then that I would consider Death, death metal.
I consider Autopsy death metal, they really have no blasts. And they're damned old school.

[RICE510]

Just because a genre evolves (into everybody sounding like Hate Eternal) doesn't mean that past incarnations Loose the title they earned back in the day.

Although, it's evident to anyone that Chuck got more into classic heavy metal from Symbolic onward... Human is WAY before that happened.

Let's revisit the working defintion of death metal around 1992...

Death metal:

Vocals: Growly and/or screamed a-tonal vocals. BM didn't OWN screams back then it was mostly that thrash vocalists screamed "IN KEY" - not very melodic, but essentially, tonal.

Guitar: Tremelo picking got more attention, but back then - ANYTHING WENT! That was what was so cool back then, it was so open minded. Try anything! Only concern = Does it shred? Does it make the song kick ass? Solos were a good thing.

Tempos: Widest range in metal = can change a couple times within the course of a song.

Rhythm: Again, anything went! It wasn't just endless blast beats. the most diverse drumming in all of contemporary music could be found in DM! - bands were using all sorts of rhythms and time sigs... Even the relatively straight forward Deicide experimented with odd time signatures.

~ Maybe not a factually working definition... But I SWEAR TO GOD! If you were around back then - These were the things people were talking about!!

Then from 1996 to 2000 Allot of people started boiling the genre down to pure speed and constant Blast beats. Although Decrepit Birth here have taken that formula and really made it their own, a true aesthetic statement. ~ I really consider it a tragedy that TOO many bands are headed in this direction - AND WORSE! How it's effected fan perception of the genre.

Having slow tempos use to be a staple - Now if you have them, you're not Death Metal...

You're Death/Doom Metal.

~weak.

[ChaosDeathkult]

What's with the Hate Eternal thing? I think Hate Eternal is one of the greatest bands I've ever heard. And has two very good musicians in one band. This band is hard to beat!

[RICE510]

I am one of the few heshers over 25 who seems to think Hate Eternal are awesome - since "This Means War" I've been waving the flag of Eric Rutan's song writing tallent which so many seem absolutley deaf to...

... Doesn't change the fact their seems an odd stigma, (perpetuated by younger heshers, or not???) - that you gotta have the speed and blast beats they do - or you're NOT death metal.

All I'm saying it, Hey! Hate Eternal, Decrepit Birth and Angel Corpse are(were) great!! - But PLEASE, let's be inclusive with regards to melodic Swedish-esque, bands... Slow to mid tempo bands like Obituary or Carcass. Especially these, since they're disappearing and that's NOT good for DM. As an example, let's just SAY (hypothetically) that you hate bands like At The Gates... regardless of that, they were, in fact, good for DM as a whole, good for the bands you DO like, thus good, even for you.

The short of it: This compartmentalized thinking I keep seeing has to GO.

[ChaosDeathkult]

Shit happens man, change is good. :)

[RICE510]

change is good - self limitation is not.

[ChaosDeathkult]

Depends on the band, more or less.

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by RICE510
All I'm saying it, Hey! Hate Eternal, Decrepit Birth and Angel Corpse are(were) great!! - But PLEASE, let's be inclusive with regards to melodic Swedish-esque, bands... Slow to mid tempo bands like Obituary or Carcass. Especially these, since they're disappearing and that's NOT good for DM. As an example, let's just SAY (hypothetically) that you hate bands like At The Gates... regardless of that, they were, in fact, good for DM as a whole, good for the bands you DO like, thus good, even for you.

This is why I wanted to include a slower song on the album. The track "of Genocide" was very much intended to be a contrast to the other songs on ...ATB. A lot of people claim that Decrepit Birth is nothing but speed and technicality. So we thought it would be cool to include a instrumental (with spoken word over it) that was twisting, with big chords and NO BLASTBEATS. The influence was a direct result of Morbid Angel's "God Of Emptiness", Cannibal Corpse's "From Liquid to Skin" and Deeds of Flesh's "Violent God". But it's weird because I've read a lot of reviews that seem to say that we only play fast? We don’t write music with the intention of being slow or technical or fast, we just write how we feel. I've been writing music like this for years, and the only reason I do this is because I enjoy it. And honestly I get most of my influence from a lot of the early 90's bands, even though I love a lot of the new stuff.

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by RICE510
change is good - self limitation is not.

Seriously, Thats about the most intelligent statement I've ever read!

[shroudofimpurity]

Originally posted by shroudofimpurity
This is why I wanted to include a slower song on the album.

Originally posted by shroudofimpurity
We don’t write music with the intention of being slow or technical or fast

:eek:I noticed I kinda contradicted myself with these two statements, but I think you get the picture...

[RICE510]

The album and your guys speed is awesome - You guys make it work! It was NOT a mistake... and although speed and a domination of blast beats are integral to the sound, you guys are NOT imprisoned by it... rather you "play" WITH it... This is also how I feel about Origin... Like you, they take the "idea" of speed,blasts, etc, and experiment with it. Not just going through the obliged motions... You know?

And as much as I DO like Hate Eternal and Eric's writing, I think they on the other hand, would be better served by some diversity of tempo and mood. - This runs contrary to Eric's intention for H.E. as a vehicle, But that's just my opinion.